Topic: When we love somebody...

[Red one]

...does it mean there is somebody we don't love?

When we say 'I love you!', does it mean that there is somebody we cold say to: 'I don't love you!'?

'I love you' - 'I love you not' - is it even up to us to say anything like it?

What is that burning and scorching feeling Michael mentioned above?
What is that almost palpable feeling that permeates everything?

[Red one]

Words are not necessary, just something that we do.  Sometimes you gotta do something.

Why exactly do we have to do anything?
The pressure I see, is born of culturally conditioned interpersonal relations that practically never are unconditional or impeccable. There is always attachment, desire or any other such thing behind it.

I'd guess, there are not so many people in the world who follow Dalai Lama's words: 'Love each other instead of being in need of each other'.

[Jaharkta]

...does it mean there is somebody we don't love?

No.

When we say 'I love you!', does it mean that there is somebody we cold say to: 'I don't love you!'?

No. Why are you placing all these conditions upon the saying?

'I love you' - 'I love you not' - is it even up to us to say anything like it?

For me, it's more like, it isn't up to me to feel it. Having been given it to feel, I feel it isn't mine to withhold.

Why exactly do we have to do anything?
The pressure I see, is born of culturally conditioned .....

Stop right there. No one is pressuring you, except whatever pressure you are placing on yourself. Perhaps that comes from your cultural conditioning, that pressure ... but I doubt that the reasonable response to it is to then attempt to invalidate another culture, or to invalidate some zany, crazy person who has the 'idiocy', in your view, to say, "I love you."

I'd guess, there are not so many people in the world who follow Dalai Lama's words: 'Love each other instead of being in need of each other'.

I would guess that you have no way of knowing this, and I would go further and say that some things are none of my business -- nor are they yours.

But... I am educated that you do not wish to be told "I love you." No more needs to be said. Point taken and application is forthwith.

[Red one]

No. Why are you placing all these conditions upon the saying?

Because I am absolutely certain that most people here (me included) would find it difficult to say 'I love you' to, e.g., person torturing us. On the other hand, we know the term 'unconditional love' pops up at certain stage of the path. Some analysis is necessary to get to the depth of its meaning.

For me, it's more like, it isn't up to me to feel it. Having been given it to feel, I feel it isn't mine to withhold.

Who argues against that? The question and emphasis are elsewhere - it is on unconditionality and inclusiveness of the feeling.

Stop right there. No one is pressuring you, except whatever pressure you are placing on yourself. Perhaps that comes from your cultural conditioning, that pressure ... but I doubt that the reasonable response to it is to then attempt to invalidate another culture, or to invalidate some zany, crazy person who has the 'idiocy', in your view, to say, "I love you."

That is a highly emotional and charged statement. I hope you do realise that I will not pay too much of attention to your desire for me to stop at a point of your choice. I am interested in getting into depth of the matter, though.

I would guess that you have no way of knowing this, and I would go further and say that some things are none of my business -- nor are they yours.

If something pops up in discussion where I am one of the participants, then things are my business.

But... I am educated that you do not wish to be told "I love you." No more needs to be said. Point taken and application is forthwith.

That's another useless outburst of emotion. Try to get the idea of what I'm trying to investigate here. Have you ever felt 'unconditional, inclusive love'? Have you noticed how very different is that feeling (or actually - energy) from the usual emotional riff-ruff?

[Jaharkta]

RO, I'm afraid you misassessed the situation if you felt you were reading emotional outbursts. That might be relevant to your topic, that misassessment -- I leave that for your consideration. Because it isn't any of my business, whatever your issues are.

I probably am not the one to discuss this with you, never having touted the accomplishment of pure, unconditional love.  I would agree with you, that very few beings are walking the planet, who have accomplished it.

I'm out of this one -- take care,
V

Because I am absolutely certain that most people here (me included) would find it difficult to say 'I love you' to, e.g., person torturing us. On the other hand, we know the term 'unconditional love' pops up at certain stage of the path. Some analysis is necessary to get to the depth of its meaning.

Who argues against that? The question and emphasis are elsewhere - it is on unconditionality and inclusiveness of the feeling.

That is a highly emotional and charged statement. I hope you do realise that I will not pay too much of attention to your desire for me to stop at a point of your choice. I am interested in getting into depth of the matter, though.

If something pops up in discussion where I am one of the participants, then things are my business.

That's another useless outburst of emotion. Try to get the idea of what I'm trying to investigate here. Have you ever felt 'unconditional, inclusive love'? Have you noticed how very different is that feeling (or actually - energy) from the usual emotional riff-ruff?

[Red one]

RO, I'm afraid you misassessed the situation if you felt you were reading emotional outbursts. That might be relevant to your topic, that misassessment -- I leave that for your consideration. Because it isn't any of my business, whatever your issues are.

I probably am not the one to discuss this with you, never having touted the accomplishment of pure, unconditional love.  I would agree with you, that very few beings are walking the planet, who have accomplished it.

I'm out of this one -- take care,
V

Thank you very much for good wishes!
What exactly was the purpose of your messages here? What did you try to say?

[littlefeather]

Because I am absolutely certain that most people here (me included) would find it difficult to say 'I love you' to, e.g., person torturing us. On the other hand, we know the term 'unconditional love' pops up at certain stage of the path. Some

I thought it worth noting that I misread the above statement several times.  And what actually says 'person torturing us'  I read and re-read as a person tutoring us.   
Interesting, that.

[Red one]

I thought it worth noting that I misread the above statement several times.  And what actually says 'person torturing us'  I read and re-read as a person tutoring us.

In a way, that is precisely what they do. In Buddhist thinking, they show how one can become miserable not only for one lifetime (torturers are rarely happy people), but for several lifetimes (as their subsequent incarnations would take place in much less happier realms). That, however, does not make it much easier to love a person who is causing us a pain beyond any belief.

[littlefeather]

Do you know many torturers?

[Red one]

Do you know many torturers?

How's that related to the subject of love?
For the sake of simplicity (and for the sake of drawing connection to what's been written about) you could call them petty tyrants...but that's a whole subject in its own right.

[littlefeather]

How's that related to the subject of love?

I assumed you knew the connection since you drew it.  However the question remains, I was curious if you know of any and if so, how does this (they) influence your view of it not being easy to give them love.   

[Jaharkta]

How's that related to the subject of love?

It was your analogy:

Because I am absolutely certain that most people here (me included) would find it difficult to say 'I love you' to, e.g., person torturing us.

[Definitive Journey]

~

Why am I Not feeling the Love in this thread???

 

Maybe I need to be tortured more...

...or am I the torturer??

Oh, nevermind...

z

[littlefeather]

~

Why am I Not feeling the Love in this thread???

 

Maybe I need to be tortured more...

...or am I the torturer??

Oh, nevermind...

z

The point I am heading towards is that it may be necessary to give our torturers love.   Not for them, but for us, for me, for my own growth. I need to let go of any negative feelings and energies I had toward them (and hence myself) and love them.  Is it easy?  I think so.  There is no other choice.

[Definitive Journey]

~

Cool.

Just don't torture yourself over it.

<<<giggles>>>

z