Topic: *Egypt

[nemo]

http://youtu.be/bOOhfS1hZVo

[nemo]

Michael, May I make a link here on this thread to a thread on another forum? This thread has over ten thousand views, which shows there is some interest in what was said here. The other thread is relevant to those that found this one of interest. Also I would like to thank you for your contributions, and I might add that how we view the self, changes how we see and interact with the reflection.

 

[Michael]

That's fine by me Nemo.

[nemo]

That's fine by me Nemo.

Thanks Michael! My forum time is winding down, here is my skype though "nemo3.14" Wishing Julie a full recovery.

http://primeradiant.yuku.com/topic/187/Mass-movement-of-Assemblage-point-of-Earth#.VOok8eZd3vo

[nemo]

 there is a theme in your writing, some examples of reflected in the quotes above, which I find leaning towards a somewhat dangerous recent (and ancient) fashion in thought.

The fashionable thought is that the world is a personal construct, an illusion, such that everything which happens out there in the world is only your own view. There really is no climate change, no war in Iraq, no government demanding you follow laws, no cholesterol in your veins, no problems with smoking, no developer about to buy up your home and build a supermarket, no corruption, no evil man with a gun pointing at you, and no beauty or healthy society and environment which is worth engaging on behalf of to foster.

Now the difficulty is that this view is based on a deep truth, but it also is one sided to the danger of isolating a person from the world, in a mental illusion of it's own.

I don't mind what way a person constructs their own theory of everything, but it should have a consequence of engagement, not isolation, of participation, not rejection. However, if I were to posit a theory in support of that, it would be that although everything we perceive is only an option and only 'within' ourselves, that doesn't deny the existence of a reality beyond our reflection.

The earth I see may only be a reflection, but that doesn't mean there is not a being out there within which I exist, and which itself exists regardless of my existence. How I perceive it is about my reflections, but it exists beyond my perceptions. What it is in 'reality' I cannot know because I will always interpret, and when I die, my interpretation also dies, but that doesn't mean that thing I refer to as the earth dies. It is true that the world dies when I die, but that's only the totality of my world - there will remain an energetic essence out there, just that it's far beyond my obsessive view of it.

Thus we as aspirants to potentiality, have to engage and struggle with all the energetic essences we interact with beyond our own. The battle to bring about health within and without is critical to our own progress in spirit. How we do that is our choice, so to get others to simply change their mind, is perfectly fine, so long as you realise you won't rid the globe of ebola by simply thinking it doesn't exist.

When I say 'ancient' above, one reference, is that this problem had to be resolved by Buddhism. They chose to classify existence into absolute reality and relative reality. Absolute reality had not separated or even existing essence, but we are forced by life to live within relative reality, and to disregard it rules in life was a bad mistake. We have to participate fully in relative reality as well as not forgetting absolute reality - to move between the two.

This has been unresolved energetically for me so I have come back to explain how I view this reflection/self in a way that I hope brings a bit more light/attention to your concerns brought up in this post.

There was a term brought up by scout1, that I liked, which he called the 'nagual authority'. (chuckle)

We can bring up what others have said in the past, and say this or that point has already been seen and seers in the past have mapped/documented what they see. This is all good, great even, but they all have a missing context. They were all limited to there local social milieu, and when explaining things they were limited to using terms familiar to them and those they were attempting to explain things too. This becomes even harder when they would use a term like reflection, and the person already has an understanding of what reflection is. So the seers then as now would then need to bring into view what they mean by reflection, and what they mean/see when they say self.

There may be, but I have not come across some seers hashing out what the self is, and or what is meant by self reflection. It is just said/used and to each it is understood in there own way. 

Today I can use the term teleport. Where Don Juan would need to say breaking continuity. My friend Lex is prone to using Buddhist terms , as my friend Scout has a fear of anything new age. This is very enjoyable for me to observe. So the question is that you have Michael. Are Scout and Lex separate from me? In Toltec terms are they energy producing beings. Like the government enforcing laws, or the developer wanting to by and develop land, as you stated. Surely these are separate from me is the gist of what you are saying.

Well yes and no. I see it like this, please if you have not go watch a video game where a person has an avatar, and is playing a game over the internet with others. That player has his screen and his avatar, but he is playing someone else with their screen and their avatar. Each screen has a complete picture but each screen is independent with a virtual representation of the other being. If the player you are observing is kicked out of the game (in whatever usually gruesome manner) The other screen or screens still exist, but the avatar no longer remains.

So how many earths are there is a relevant question, only if one has a more complex view. To many there is only one earth, one timeline one me and one you. This is a grande illusion, and for those with that view the earth will be nothing else.

Even science now is seeing the importance of the observer to what is being observed. The super position of things. We agree something is there so it is there, but in its natural state it is everywhere, and at once. Our observation of it brings it into time and space, so in a way we create, something that is already there. So the government, or developer, are not so important, once we see how they are put into place, because when that is seen, one knows how to deal with them.

Yes there is a world out there, and yes we are urged to deal with it, as part of being on it. There is though a more complex functional view available

[Michael]

Not sure if I completely understand your view, or if it's any different to mine. You are saying that in the video/virtual reality game, I exist in my room, sitting at my computer, but I am observing an avatar of myself interacting with avatars of others who are all sitting in their rooms. So my avatar exists in the screens of every other player - there are many of me in the perceptual field of others, including my own, and yet there is also one me on the seat with mouse in hand. And if that one me dies, then the many also die, except that who is the 'me'? The one on the seat, or the one in every every one else's screen?

So if a train is hurtling toward me while I sit on the tracks, that train is only a facsimile in my mind, and yet it can kill me because it exists outside my perception of it. But if I had sufficient perceptual power, I could choose to be, at that moment, on a beach instead of on the tracks. The train would kill me if that perceptual vision exists only so far as my mind, but would not kill me if I had the power to migrate my physical body through the tunnel of perception onto the beach. The train would still hurtle along, but I would be somewhere else.

Is that close to your view?

This inevitably means that I could choose an earth from the infinitely available, where environmental destruction doesn't exist. Except that I am choosing an avatar of the earth as it were, and each avatar is linked to the essence of earth existing beyond its avatars, such that environmental destruction in one avatar will impact on the energetic essence earth. So all I am doing is dodging around, like the tenant, but I still have to face a reality that exists beyond my teleporting, and which ultimately catches up. All I have done is to vastly expand my field, but also all I am doing is changing the metaphor - travelling from one temple to another. This surface shifting avoids the deeper task of shifting in depth, into the core of my being, much like learning to meditate in a dream.

[nemo]

Is that close to your view?

No, Lets say your emphasis is a little too, action based, used as a wind up to make your point. To spin what I am saying into what the tenant did/is doing, shows we still need to do some work Michael. 

[nemo]

A previous interaction earlier in the thread.

7
Love / Re: *Egypt

« Message by Michael on April 04, 2013, 02:17:10 AM »

Quote from: nemo on March 29, 2013, 01:24:54 PM

Basically there is an assemblage point of earth unique to every one being choosing to be in this particular cluster of emanations

As I thought. This is your point. For me to have an AP, that AP has to exist within the earth - thus you say it is an AP of the earth personal to me.
So by moving my AP, I am also moving the AP of the earth, or rather my specific personal earth AP.

This is drawing a very long bow nemo.
Let's for argument sake say the Earth has a trillion trillion APs, of all the beings-with-AP that exist within the earth. My little one is one of those. If I move my little AP by a fraction, I am in effect creating a shift in the collective. But not if the collective is already fluid, and not if I am only moving my AP within the elasticity of the collective AP.

I don't think you can say my AP is also an AP of the earth.

(nemo) Okay lets visit this again.

Avatar = Tonal

Screen = Bubble of perception

multiple players = Cluster of bubbles

Game software / Agreed rules of the game = Eagles command to forget, time required to access knowledge.

Player develops skills to access portals = breaks continuity

Observer with the mouse gains access to the avatar = Totality of the self

Player changes game options, to computer mode = No other players

A singularity

Game Hardware  = assemblage point of earth

Has nothing to do with other screens with other players.

Michael you have never answered the question of how many earths there are in your view? I have asked you a few times. I must surmise that you believe there is only one earth, so then reason would assume that there is just one big assemblage point of earth, and that earth does not come and go with the birth and death of the tonal. As you can see that is not my view.





 

[nemo]

(nemo) The above comparison between the computer game avatar, and a tonal beings meta-morph does not say it all. Though it does hint at the basis, gives a glimpse into the workings of my view. The following shows that what I have said is consistent with what Genaro was expressing to Carlos in Journey to Ixtlan. 


"No. They were people."
"People? But you said they were phantoms."
"I said that they were no longer real. After my encounter with the ally nothing was real any more."
We were quiet for a long time.
"What was the final outcome of that experience, don Genaro?" I asked.
"Final outcome?"
"I mean, when and how did you finally reach Ixtlan?"
Both of them broke into laughter at once.
"So that's the final outcome for you, " don Juan remarked.
"Let's put it this way then. There was no final outcome to Genaro's journey. There will never be any
final outcome. Genaro is still on his way to Ixtlan!" Don Genaro glanced at me with piercing eyes
and then turned his head to look into the distance, towards the south.
"I will never reach Ixtlan, " he said. His voice was firm but soft, almost a murmur. "Yet in my
feelings . . . in my feelings sometimes I think I'm just one step from reaching it. Yet I never will. In
my journey I don't even find the familiar landmarks I used to know. Nothing is any longer the
same."
Don Juan and don Genaro looked at each other. There was something so sad about their look.
"In my  I find only phantom travelers," he said softly. I looked at don Juan. I had not understood
what don Genaro had meant.
"Everyone Genaro finds on his way to Ixtlan is only an ephemeral being, " don Juan explained.
"Take you, for instance. You are a phantom. Your feelings and your eagerness are those of people.
That's why he says that he encounters only phantom travelers on his."
I suddenly realized that don Genaro's journey was a metaphor. "Your  is not real then, " I said.
"It is real!" don Genaro interjected. "The travelers are not real."
He pointed to don Juan with a nod of his head and said emphatically, "This is the only one who is
real. The world is real only when I am with this one." Don Juan smiled. "Genaro was telling his
story to you, " don Juan said, "because yesterday you stopped the world, and he thinks that you also
saw, but you are such a fool that you don't know it yourself. I keep on telling him that you are
weird, and that sooner or later you will see. At any rate, in your next meeting with the ally, if there
is a next time for you, you will have to wrestle with it and tame it. If you survive the shock, which
I'm sure you will, since you're strong and have been living like a warrior, you will find yourself
alive in an unknown land. Then, as is natural to all of us, the first thing you will want to do is to
start on your way back to Los Angeles. But there is no way to go back to Los Angeles. What you
left there is lost forever. By then, of course, you will be a sorcerer, but that's no help; at a time like
that what's important to all of us is the fact that everything we love or hate or wish for has been left
behind. Yet the feelings in a man do not die or change, and the sorcerer starts on his way back home knowing that he will never reach it, knowing that no power on earth, not even his death, will
deliver him to the place, the things, the people he loved. That's what Genaro told you."
Don Juan's explanation was like a catalyst; the full impact of don Genaro's story hit me suddenly
when I began to link the tale to my own life.
"What about the people I love?" I asked don Juan. "What would happen to them?"
"They would all be left behind, " he said.
"But is there no way I could retrieve them? Could I rescue them and take them with me?"
"No. Your ally will spin you, alone, "
"But I could go back to Los Angeles, couldn't I? I could take the bus or a plane and go there. Los
Angeles would still be there, wouldn't it?"
"Sure, " don Juan said, laughing. "And so will Manteca and Temecula and Tucson."
"And Tecate, " don Genaro added with great seriousness.
"And Piedras Negras and Tranquitas, " don Juan said, smiling.
Don Genaro added more names and so did don Juan; and they became involved in enumerating a
series of the most hilarious and unbelievable names of cities and towns.
"Spinning with your ally will change your idea of the world, " don Juan said. "That idea is
everything; and when that changes, the world itself changes."

[nemo]

We do not live in a world of objects, what is out there, what we call the world, solar system, universe, government etc. are all the same thing.

Just to drive the point home, here is an article to back up what I have been saying from the scientific angle. 



http://stormcloudsgathering.com/quantum-relativity

[Michael]

labyrinth

[runningstream]

how many earths there are and totality of self

       self as an interesting concept belonging to earth

having lived

          selves finding totalities of dreams


selves finding dreams reflecting threads


totalities finding threads enter totalities of selves upon earths


upon skies

      upon reflections which exist disconnected and connected


when reached

                   


i feel the question brewing is how to enter the totality of the self


how to and be to of bindings that allow connections and interfaces with earth and the sky


totalities which are expansive enough to allow flight


like orbits which are drawn towards the sun yet passing through find all this there disbanded and accessible


moments of levity associated to truths of awareness

filaments seeking a union with self as complete


         passing moments which draw out and are aware


showing back positions


and to what ?


a binding force



and how is it that intercornnected beings process on levels beyond food water

the earth


sun



leaving the question alone



miracles are things of beauty



outward and inward


seems to be about focus



meeting selves on the road



perhaps we will ascend into higher and unknown avatars



do we need to give doubles direction too


yes says the gecko



we must build bridges together



love is building bridges



philosophical views


scientific evidences


religious ascetics


and non doings to produce results


the no thing and the thing




i have walked in upon myself travelling somewhere



perhaps i look for something


is it in or is it out



perhaps when i find the answer


i will know what i have lost



for now i make a coffee perhaps another chop


in this room with this mind on this earth



silence brought my lover its true



magic exists in the earth


it comes into being through times


people and being placed time within time purposefully i insist


changing the time is one worthy journey


outward


while inwardly holding steady this precious thing


death seems to be the question beyond living


what will be waiting there to appear here or there

[Endless~Knot]

nemo, what you are saying about selves seems to relate to quantum theory. However I think we may have other 'selves' according to it, but I do find we have one, actual, concrete, 'self' per se, but its 'relatively real.'

I think there is one earth, but perception of it too, is very unique. Like we can be looking at the same thing, but see it differently. There could be other earth like places elsewhere, but earth, being very distinct and powerful I think she stands on her own. I also see earth as sentient, not with say persona, but character. I think it is quite possible perhaps others in past knew her more spiritually whereas now we are learning much about her scientifically.

[runningstream]

Nemo speaks very well . Spit it out Nemo .

Perhaps it is the perspective that must shift to understand ,conducive from all sides .  i would love to see it all come about   

[Endless~Knot]

Nemo speaks very well . Spit it out Nemo .

Perhaps it is the perspective that must shift to understand ,conducive from all sides .  i would love to see it all come about   

Yes I like the exchanges Michael and Nemo have with each other. Though I do confess, sometimes I dont know what the hell they are talking about. So I try to read a bit between the lines to get the gist of the convo. But I admit, its fun trying!