Soma
Turns of the Road => The Double (Public) => Topic started by: Michael on July 22, 2006, 08:54:02 PM
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Anything that can be written about this subject is bound to be wrong. I am using the brain and the language of my culture, both of which come under the suzerainty of the physical world, and the bent of my culture to functionalism. But more, I want to reduce the magic of it to categorisation - hallmark of the prosaic mind and anathema to the astral world, the world of emotion and feeling. So take this as a means to place a handle on the double - not an unworthy exercise.
As a being drops down a level, it splits into two - this is a very old insight. Lets begin with the three worlds - the physical, astral and causal; or on Toltec, the 1st, 2nd, and 3 attention; or as others have described, the 3 dimensional, the 2, and the 1 dimensional; or the body, the soul and the spirit. These are in essence illusions, but due to the nature of existence they are distinct worlds, separated by what some have called a ripple of energy. This classification is critically important, as too often spiritually inclined people see only the astral world as worthy of a goal. This is a huge debate that has raged in India for 3 thousand years, and in Christianity the 3rd world has been outlawed since the first council. Remember, the astral world is vast beyond comprehension, thus it is simplistic to classify it in 1st attention tools. But nonetheless, it is a world of pictures, in distinction to the 3rd world which is imageless.
At the topmost point that we can grasp, we have the Dreamer, the being that dreams, or beams us. This, from our perspective, ageless and immortal being, lives in the causal world, the 3rd world. Some call this the Higher Self, but the problem with that word is that it has become over used, and now means all kinds of things, so has become close to useless. I introduce it only to say it could mean anything.
When the Dreamer beams itself down into temporal manifestation, two beings are created, an astral body and a physical body. The physical body is really the only one we can call a ‘body’. But we all dream, and when in dream we inhabit a body, yet that is illusory. Try to see the astral as a physical body turned inside out, like a glove. What is ‘I’ in physical, becomes the ‘world’ in astral, and visa versa. In dream, we inhabit our physical body’s inner world, as our outer world.
Now comes the tricky part. I don’t like the word ‘double’, as it is far too clinical/mathematical for a being that would disdain such a simplistic term. The word soul, which I sometimes use, is another disintegrated word that has a different meaning for everyone. The old Taoists called it the spirit body, which I prefer myself. Sometimes I call it the energy body, but that depends on the context. The double is not the same as the astral body that everyone has, though it is the same in some ways. It inhabits the astral worlds, but curiously it seems to have a closer connection to the Dreamer than our physical, and it also seems to have deep roots far beyond our small life span, in short it has an ancientness redolent of the Dreamer itself. Personally I don’t believe it is immortal, but I am not in a position to claim that with any certainty - I will of course find out eventually. Still it is my Dreamer that I hold in prime focus, as it is the true channel of that other mysterious energy we call spirit, or Spirit.
Who made who, little me or the double? - I don’t know. But I have watched as my own double grew in power and awareness, and for me I observed that happen as I delved deeper into my own self. This is important, because contrary to the belief of many, it is not my own lucid dreaming that I observed as the creative impetus, though it was a very important step.
I became disillusioned with aimless lucid dreaming, which although was high adventure, never really went anywhere past the significant first point of astral awakening. I wanted to go deeper. I did not know how to do that in dreams except to meditate in dreaming, which produced explosive results, but still I saw that I was not changing, it was just me in a different movie. The same happened to me after years of physically travelling through strange lands, one day I realised I could be anywhere, but it was still me - I wanted deep transformation, not just switching TV channels. Comes a point when switching environments no longer produces the cataclysmic inner resonations that occur at first when our inner being is fused to the outer world - ie, when at last our inner being turns freely inside the outer shell, but still needs to grow further. How?
It was only when I discovered how to do this deep transformation, and implemented it in my life, that my double really began to draw closer to me, and began to reflect this depth in its own charismatic and fabulous manifestations. I use the term ‘draw closer’ with purpose, because that is how it appears, in myself and others I observe. It is almost impossible to transfer knowledge to another whose double is absent, irresponsible, childish, capricious, erratic or plain unhelpful (and mine has been all of those and more - like violent and abusive - along the journey, so I recognise it immediately in others).
But the strange thing is that now I get the picture that my double was always the wise and powerful being he is, and I was only projecting my own shadow side onto him, and seeing him as that, which he never was. So in that sense, my work-on-self has been a way to not create the double, but remove the illusions from my own eye so that I could see him more clearly. Still, it is not as simple as that, and I do believe the double is intimately connected with my own journey into depth of being - such a difficult thing to understand let alone progress into. There is something deep in me that is both the little physical me and the double - just coming of age into its full inheritance in two worlds, two bodies, neither more significant than the other.
The double’s appearance is different from spirit guides. There is a unique vibration around one when the double is present, or familiar. A quality of magical possibilities and inspiration. Guides give sensible advise and prosaic comments, where as the double causes poetic and powerful acts. The double has little time for small talk, even that of new-age spiritual fascinations. It sees in a moment, and loves to let its field of action free in the physical through us.
When a group comes together in the way of this work, you can bet the doubles of each person have long ago come together, and are acting together in the symbolic level of the astral. But if the doubles are not matured in their connection, and their own evolution, then the group on this side can disintegrate. That is a pity, as so much can be achieved, but really, the ‘group Dreamer’ has its own time, and will draw in its parts in its own way. Nonetheless I am one to be saddened at the opportunities lost to each member in this life, to such an extent that I try to find any way to turn the group, like the individual, from a puppet being into a basket being into a full being of light.
These terms are old, and reflect the images of seeing the Dreamer’s etheric energetic pathways down through the double to the lowest material level being - a few contacts looks like puppet strings, a very advanced person looks like a basket, and masters are a sealed ball of light.
m
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When a group comes together in the way of this work, you can bet the doubles of each person have long ago come together, and are acting together in the symbolic level of the astral. But if the doubles are not matured in their connection, and their own evolution, then the group on this side can disintegrate. That is a pity, as so much can be achieved, but really, the ‘group Dreamer’ has its own time, and will draw in its parts in its own way. Nonetheless I am one to be saddened at the opportunities lost to each member in this life, to such an extent that I try to find any way to turn the group, like the individual, from a puppet being into a basket being into a full being of light.
Thank you M for bringing in this topic with all your experience. The double will remain a mystery to me, and my experiences with it doesn't resolve the riddle at all. From the wise Toltec I have learned though that in the really really dark ages where stuff that we disuss so openly was strictly forbidden and social gathering in esoteric matters was difficult to arrange, together with the fact that transportation and communications were slow - then the Toltecs used the double to meet. So this is in line with what you also are telling.
It was only when I discovered how to do this deep transformation, and implemented it in my life, that my double really began to draw closer to me, and began to reflect this depth in its own charismatic and fabulous manifestations. I use the term ‘draw closer’ with purpose, because that is how it appears, in myself and others I observe. It is almost impossible to transfer knowledge to another whose double is absent, irresponsible, childish, capricious, erratic or plain unhelpful (and mine has been all of those and more - like violent and abusive - along the journey, so I recognise it immediately in others).
But the strange thing is that now I get the picture that my double was always the wise and powerful being he is, and I was only projecting my own shadow side onto him, and seeing him as that, which he never was.
I suppose it is about there somewhere I am. After transformation comes these insights of projecting shadows. What I try to do is building up a time lag and some stability in my experiences, with the aim for a new permanent foundation. In that process I continue to reject these shadow projections. And since I no longer hold them myself I prefer to "work" with others, preferable similar, projections. This "work" is not necessary but gives a pace and a direction that is easy to follow.
jm
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Greetings:
Somebody asked me the question as to what I though about manifesting the double into physical being, and why people's experiences were different. I responded thusly:
This is real important, and the key to understanding--
What we manifest, we do so according to our belief systems.
Everything is energy, specifically our essence. Our ego is the part (for the sake of speaking) that copes with the physical world and also manifests it into being in partership with our Unconscious (ie., energy body). When things come into being from energy to matter, according to our belief systems, it comes out, it must come out, according to our belief systems or our ego may not understand it or even perceive it. Somebody's belief systems do it one way, Michael's another, yours and mine and Raven in still different ways.
If you believe that you can and will manifest your double (what I call your essence) into physical being, then it's highly likely that you will. For the sake of speaking, the Double is the Sorceror's essence, that which manifested with her will and intent, into physical being. That's what she believed would happen, and it takes a damn powerful witch with strong intent, so that's what happened.
A channeled being is an independent energy essence not focussed in this physical reality in the present now. If it was the Sorceror's intent to manifest that being, and he consented, then that's what would have happened. However, he would not be the Sorceror's double (unless somehow he's her essence, which he is not in this example).
Again, and I've fought with some people over this because they've made their belief system an absolute--Everything in physical reality is manifested according to our individual and mass belief systems. The mass belief systems are our "root assumptions"; these make this world shareable amongst all of us in a similar form. If it weren't for our belief systems, the physical world wouldn't be here, at least not in this form or be shareable amongst us all. But our belief systems are not absolutes. Absolutes are only those "things" for lack of a better word, that are true in all systems-physical and non-physical, such as "everything is energy".
Michael is right. If you want to do it Della's way (from the Shaman's Rattle) or try something similar, then the person to ask is Della. I don't work things that way, or Michael's way, or yours. Somebody's vulture man may indeed be their double, or may not. I don't know. Anyway, you manifest that according to your belief systems, and it's up to you to figure that out, my opinions notwithstanding.
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In rereading carefully I have found perhaps understanding to my own question.
Beyond that (Im digging for words here due to there simply are not really the right ones to use thus patterns of use which I hope dont conflict) Is an even higher frequency without voice but with plenty to share if that makes sense.
Michael:
It sees in a moment, and loves to let its field of action free in the physical through us.
Same thing?
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Jennifer, I most assuredly don't know the answers here!
There seem to be many differing views.
All I know is this: for the past few years, I have been trying to invoke and tweak the relationship with mine, and have only rarely gotten a consistent picture.
I believe in the existence of it, but the same face does not come consistently in visualizations. For that matter, the genders have differed!
There's a certain wily vibration mine appears on, and that's my point of recognition.
Is it something different than a spirit guide? Yes, I think so .. in my "beliefs" about it, it is the immortal self -- the one I wish to walk into at the time of death, and live on.
Which makes the apprehension and development of the relationship with it all the more crucial to me....
This is the best I can articulate on it now, for I insist on first-hand experience with myself -- thus far, since what I've had has often been fuzzy, I stay mum on the topic.
I've seen mine as an attractive, humorous, loving woman,
a strong and masculine male teacher with a penchant for trouble,
a mischievous mexican fellow with a huge handlebar mustache,
and an aging male amerindian ....
I know the names of two of them.
Different names, different individuals!
Clears things right up, eh?
:-* :-* :-*
I'm with you: the learning and journey is a pleasure!
A sense of urgency seems appropos, though, in this day and age, to me... but that's just me!
love,
v
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Vicki:
it is the immortal self -- the one I wish to walk into at the time of death, and live on.
Which makes the apprehension and development of the relationship with it all the more crucial to me....
I agree completely with this statement.
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That "insane longing" ... I think that's one of the keys!
:)
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*smiles*
I think Ill go sleep on it ...
::) My insanity drives me like a force untouchable sometimes, perhaps it is a key ;)
Thank you!
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Jen, thanks for sharing your views and wandering through the darkness with me as well!
Sweet dreams!
:-*
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This is very tricky, what you ask Raven. And I haven't gone very far into understanding Della's particular angle on how one creates the double etc - as Todd says this has a lot to do with beliefs, though I would not use that term as it tends to imply mental concepts, where as I see it more that differences arise due inherent differences in our life, experiences and AP positions. But these should never become 'beliefs' in the sense that we fight to have others see the world as we do.
That is the danger in beliefs - they become obstacles to understanding another's unique view on reality. Yet there is the area of 'having to believe', where adopting a belief structure is important for action. Just it should never be a cause for blocking another person's reality.
The double is not so easily categorised. It is a mysterious entity, and as such will manifest with each person in a way that is unique to them. However, once one has had one's double appear, it becomes easier to see that in another - but not always without doubt: best to avoid adamant.
i'll add more later...
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Jen, thanks for sharing your views and wandering through the darkness with me as well!
Sweet dreams!
:-*
Thank you for lighting candles along the way! :-*
Sweet dreams!
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This is very tricky, what you ask Raven. And I haven't gone very far into understanding Della's particular angle on how one creates the double etc - as Todd says this has a lot to do with beliefs, though I would not use that term as it tends to imply mental concepts, where as I see it more that differences arise due inherent differences in our life, experiences and AP positions. But these should never become 'beliefs' in the sense that we fight to have others see the world as we do.
That is the danger in beliefs - they become obstacles to understanding another's unique view on reality. Yet there is the area of 'having to believe', where adopting a belief structure is important for action. Just it should never be a cause for blocking another person's reality.
The double is not so easily categorised. It is a mysterious entity, and as such will manifest with each person in a way that is unique to them. However, once one has had one's double appear, it becomes easier to see that in another - but not always without doubt: best to avoid adamant.
i'll add more later...
Thank you :-*
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I sought her from myself,
she was there all along;
how strange that I
had concealed her from me.
I kept going back and forth
with her, within myself --
my senses drunk,
her beauties, my wine --
Setting out
from certain knowledge
to its source and truth,
reality my quest,
Calling to myself from me
to guide me by my voice
to that part of me
lost in my search.
Me begging me
to raise the screen
by lifting up the veil,
for I was my only means to me.
I was gazing
into the mirror of my beauty
to see the perfection of my being
in my contemplation of my face,
And mouthing my name, I listened
and leaned toward me,
looking to one who could make me hear
mention of me in my voice,
Placing my hands
upon my heart,
hoping to hold me
there in my embrace,
Rising toward my breaths
pleading they would pass by me
that I might find
me there.
Until a flash appeared
from me to my eye;
the break of my dawn shone clear,
my dark sky disappeared.
There, where reason recoils,
I arrived,
and my bond and union
reached to me from myself.
Then I glowed in joy,
as I attained to me
with a certainty that spared me
from my journey's hard ride.
I led myself to me
after I called me back;
my soul my means,
my guide to me.
When I pulled away
the curtains of sensuous disguise
brought down
by the mysteries of wisdom,
I raised the screen from my soul
by lifting up the veil,
and so it answered
my question.
I had rubbed the rust of my attributes
from the mirror of my being,
and it was encircled
with my beaming rays,
And I summoned me to witness me
since no other existed
in my witness
to rival me.
My mentioning my name
made me hear it in my recollection
as my soul, negating sense,
said my name and listened.
I hugged myself --
but not by wrapping arms around my ribs --
that I might embrace
my identity.
I inhaled my spirit,
while the air of my breath
perfumed scattered ambergris
with fragrance,
All of me free
from the dual quality of sensation,
my freedom within,
I, one with my essence.
Umar Ibn al-Farid
Sufi Verses, Saintly Life
Translated by Th. Emil Homerin
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had rubbed the rust of my attributes
from the mirror of my being,
and it was encircled
with my beaming rays,
-=-=-
inhaled my spirit,
while the air of my breath
perfumed scattered ambergris
with fragrance,
All of me free
from the dual quality of sensation,
my freedom within,
I, one with my essence.
Beautiful Vicki, thank you for sharing it here, perfect placement!
:-* Raven
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yes, a good one - i like how nichi can always find an appropriate poem
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Anything that can be written about this subject is bound to be wrong. I am using the brain and the language of my culture, both of which come under the suzerainty of the physical world, and the bent of my culture to functionalism. But more, I want to reduce the magic of it to categorisation - hallmark of the prosaic mind and anathema to the astral world, the world of emotion and feeling. So take this as a means to place a handle on the double - not an unworthy exercise.
As a being drops down a level, it splits into two - this is a very old insight. Lets begin with the three worlds - the physical, astral and causal; or on Toltec, the 1st, 2nd, and 3 attention; or as others have described, the 3 dimensional, the 2, and the 1 dimensional; or the body, the soul and the spirit. These are in essence illusions, but due to the nature of existence they are distinct worlds, separated by what some have called a ripple of energy. This classification is critically important, as too often spiritually inclined people see only the astral world as worthy of a goal. This is a huge debate that has raged in India for 3 thousand years, and in Christianity the 3rd world has been outlawed since the first council. Remember, the astral world is vast beyond comprehension, thus it is simplistic to classify it in 1st attention tools. But nonetheless, it is a world of pictures, in distinction to the 3rd world which is imageless.
At the topmost point that we can grasp, we have the Dreamer, the being that dreams, or beams us. This, from our perspective, ageless and immortal being, lives in the causal world, the 3rd world. Some call this the Higher Self, but the problem with that word is that it has become over used, and now means all kinds of things, so has become close to useless. I introduce it only to say it could mean anything.
When the Dreamer beams itself down into temporal manifestation, two beings are created, an astral body and a physical body. The physical body is really the only one we can call a ‘body’. But we all dream, and when in dream we inhabit a body, yet that is illusory. Try to see the astral as a physical body turned inside out, like a glove. What is ‘I’ in physical, becomes the ‘world’ in astral, and visa versa. In dream, we inhabit our physical body’s inner world, as our outer world.
Now comes the tricky part. I don’t like the word ‘double’, as it is far too clinical/mathematical for a being that would disdain such a simplistic term. The word soul, which I sometimes use, is another disintegrated word that has a different meaning for everyone. The old Taoists called it the spirit body, which I prefer myself. Sometimes I call it the energy body, but that depends on the context. The double is not the same as the astral body that everyone has, though it is the same in some ways. It inhabits the astral worlds, but curiously it seems to have a closer connection to the Dreamer than our physical, and it also seems to have deep roots far beyond our small life span, in short it has an ancientness redolent of the Dreamer itself. Personally I don’t believe it is immortal, but I am not in a position to claim that with any certainty - I will of course find out eventually. Still it is my Dreamer that I hold in prime focus, as it is the true channel of that other mysterious energy we call spirit, or Spirit.
Who made who, little me or the double? - I don’t know. But I have watched as my own double grew in power and awareness, and for me I observed that happen as I delved deeper into my own self. This is important, because contrary to the belief of many, it is not my own lucid dreaming that I observed as the creative impetus, though it was a very important step.
I became disillusioned with aimless lucid dreaming, which although was high adventure, never really went anywhere past the significant first point of astral awakening. I wanted to go deeper. I did not know how to do that in dreams except to meditate in dreaming, which produced explosive results, but still I saw that I was not changing, it was just me in a different movie. The same happened to me after years of physically travelling through strange lands, one day I realised I could be anywhere, but it was still me - I wanted deep transformation, not just switching TV channels. Comes a point when switching environments no longer produces the cataclysmic inner resonations that occur at first when our inner being is fused to the outer world - ie, when at last our inner being turns freely inside the outer shell, but still needs to grow further. How?
It was only when I discovered how to do this deep transformation, and implemented it in my life, that my double really began to draw closer to me, and began to reflect this depth in its own charismatic and fabulous manifestations. I use the term ‘draw closer’ with purpose, because that is how it appears, in myself and others I observe. It is almost impossible to transfer knowledge to another whose double is absent, irresponsible, childish, capricious, erratic or plain unhelpful (and mine has been all of those and more - like violent and abusive - along the journey, so I recognise it immediately in others).
But the strange thing is that now I get the picture that my double was always the wise and powerful being he is, and I was only projecting my own shadow side onto him, and seeing him as that, which he never was. So in that sense, my work-on-self has been a way to not create the double, but remove the illusions from my own eye so that I could see him more clearly. Still, it is not as simple as that, and I do believe the double is intimately connected with my own journey into depth of being - such a difficult thing to understand let alone progress into. There is something deep in me that is both the little physical me and the double - just coming of age into its full inheritance in two worlds, two bodies, neither more significant than the other.
The double’s appearance is different from spirit guides. There is a unique vibration around one when the double is present, or familiar. A quality of magical possibilities and inspiration. Guides give sensible advise and prosaic comments, where as the double causes poetic and powerful acts. The double has little time for small talk, even that of new-age spiritual fascinations. It sees in a moment, and loves to let its field of action free in the physical through us.
When a group comes together in the way of this work, you can bet the doubles of each person have long ago come together, and are acting together in the symbolic level of the astral. But if the doubles are not matured in their connection, and their own evolution, then the group on this side can disintegrate. That is a pity, as so much can be achieved, but really, the ‘group Dreamer’ has its own time, and will draw in its parts in its own way. Nonetheless I am one to be saddened at the opportunities lost to each member in this life, to such an extent that I try to find any way to turn the group, like the individual, from a puppet being into a basket being into a full being of light.
These terms are old, and reflect the images of seeing the Dreamer’s etheric energetic pathways down through the double to the lowest material level being - a few contacts looks like puppet strings, a very advanced person looks like a basket, and masters are a sealed ball of light.
m
Ah time passes and how we grow and learn! Thought Id bump this treasure up for rereading.
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quote author=nichi link=topic=110.msg3378#msg3378 date=1157131964]
lost in my search.
Me begging me
to raise the screen
by lifting up the veil,
for I was my only means to me.
Wouldn't ya know after lurking about for over two hours (my time ran out once already!) this would be the discussion that invites me. ::)
I've read this morning about gloves being turned inside out, (that one does hit home - do I no longer fit the hand for which I was created?), about words (those who know me know my love/hate relationship there), and about belief systems.
I've been delighted to meet up with some old friends, and look forward to making new ones. Hi Todd, I feel your hand slip into mine once more. Vicki, your arms hold me close again, and Jen - we continue our flight together!
Two things - maybe three...
"lost in my search ... for I was my only means to me" I feel that to use someone else's ideas, definitions, or practices to find myself, is the surest way to become lost. I AM the only way to me.
"we manifest by our beliefs" and if I believe that I must search for me - I will always BE searching.
I've struggled for years to find the words to define the undefinable, for ways to describe the indescribable, to mindfully understand the non-understandable. And I've learned that when I get to the point where there are no words that fit, I've found where I fit.
I imagine how difficult it must be for my "double", in that place of no thoughts or images, to communicate with me through those things. How with each thought or image I create, I place a barrier between us and take one step backward in my search for coming together.
I understand the guides, mentors, soul-speak, higher-self, etc. because they "speak my language". I know the One through lack of language, which because my glove is inside out, is always present.... on the other hand.
Luv, K
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Welcome to this gathering, Kaycee!
(((((((((((((((you))))))))))))))))
:-*
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Yes, welcome!! Its a pleasure to see you once again and to have you here in Soma.
:-*
Blessings, Jennifer
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Yesterday, I tried to look at my double from that perspective and I saw a rather strange-looking shape there. I was pale-blueish, slant-eyed (but these were not human eyes), and its eyes were of piercing blue colour. Its limbless silhouette reminded of human body only remotely.
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I've been thinking - is there a double at all? I kind of sounds like something separate from us.
It seems more like our awareness evolves and is able to deal with stuff it wasn't before. Not quite sure waht the doeble then is. At least i wouldn't personalyze it in any way. For me it would be more like pure consciuosness.
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Yesterday, I tried to look at my double from that perspective and I saw a rather strange-looking shape there. I was pale-blueish, slant-eyed (but these were not human eyes), and its eyes were of piercing blue colour. Its limbless silhouette reminded of human body only remotely.
Aha!
I have seen beings like you describe Juhani, in dreaming and while awake off in the distance from where I was standing. Have also seen them in photographs. Intersting you saw yourself this way.
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Intersting you saw yourself this way.
Not quite 'me'.
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I've been thinking - is there a double at all? I kind of sounds like something separate from us.
It seems more like our awareness evolves and is able to deal with stuff it wasn't before. Not quite sure waht the doeble then is. At least i wouldn't personalyze it in any way. For me it would be more like pure consciuosness.
If I had to define the double in a few words, I would say that my own experience has led me to see it as a projection of the self. So it might be experienced as "separate", even though at the level of spirit/energy it is not at all separate. Sometimes I've used the term "energy body" as synonomous w/ the double, but that's not really accurate - at least I don't think so anymore. The energy body is more like the "ghost inside the machine", whereas the double is a projection BEYOND the machine. As was discussed in Castaneda's works, the double can take on a life of its own, as Genaro's double clearly did. My personal opinion is that this "life of its own" is actually a series of lifetimes occurring "outside of time" - perhaps what some might call "past lives" or "alternate realities".
Reason being... we mortal humans are more or less "confined" to a singular experience (i.e., I am only "della" throughout this corporeal existence), but through the double, we may gather the experiences of a thousand "alternate lives". So, when we talk about "inhabiting the totality of oneself", it seems to me that all of that other experience would be brought together in a single assemblage point - and we would, at that moment, "awaken inside the double."
Just some thoughts... :)
Nice to meet you!
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Hi! :)
It must have been his own intention to create his double in such way. And he then was aware of both. Maybe the double is like a second consciusness.
As was discussed in Castaneda's works, the double can take on a life of its own, as Genaro's double clearly did. My personal opinion is that this "life of its own" is actually a series of lifetimes occurring "outside of time" - perhaps what some might call "past lives" or "alternate realities".
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Hi! :)
Maybe the double is like a second consciusness.
That's actually a pretty apt description! :) To me, it's a "second consciousness" with a much larger RAM and hard drive than my humanform self. Opening one's eyes inside that "second consciousness" would be like having access to the totality of oneself without all the filters that keep our assemblage points more or less fixed in first attention.
And, yes, I suspect Genaro did create his double in that manner for a reason. The double is a strange and mysterious thing... no two people seem to experience it in exactly the same way... which is, of course, part of the beauty of it. :)
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One for the ordinary world and one for other side.
It sound weird to say "my double". Like it is someone else who you can talk to and so on. It doesn't make much sense. You just switch between the two. Maybe...
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When you stand gazing upward to the summit and your heart longs to move.. its your other that whispers.. yes.
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Nah - one day i'll find out, and I promise to tell you - what the Double Is.
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It sound weird to say "my double".
I've never liked the term, despite that interesting book by Dostoevsky of the same name.
I have sought without success for another word, and I hope to find one.
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I've never liked the term, despite that interesting book by Dostoevsky of the same name.
I have sought without success for another word, and I hope to find one.
Indeed - me, too! The term "double" makes it sound like a twin, or exact duplicate, when that doesn't seem to be the experience of anyone I know. I prefer to call it "my dreamer", but that usually requires about 10K words of explanation as well, so... we are again at the mercy of words. *LOL*
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To me it's that "all knowing" part of you that's always been within you. It may seem like another entity, but it's simply You. The closer you get to the "all knowing", the more you "blend". Maybe where the term "dreaming your double" and vice a versa came from?
Everyone sees it differently because there is no one "prescribed truth" to the matter. To me it seems we are all pioneers in describing it ... with words and perception. No right, no wrong. :) Yes, and the beauty is that we all see it differently ... we're not caught up in any consensual agreement. That to me is freeing.
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Well, I haven't read the whole thing. I do have something relatively unimportant to add.
Has anyone thought of just coining a new term? Why not, writers do it all the time. Could be composite of different words or parts of words, or a composite of different parts of speech.... Or just throw together letters with a sound that comes close to reminding you of the double in all the stories you have heard and your own experience, and slap on a relatively close definition. There you go that is the double.
I have a skeleton for a story in my head. The people in the story speak a language where the words are all based off of sounds. At some point they got together the recordings of various different sounds from their world and created a language based off it. Instead of calling a robin a robin they have five ways of speaking of the robin based off the five common sounds the robin makes. They choose which sound depending on what they are saying about the robin and when the robin would normally make that sound.
They threw in some basic rules to generalize a some more complex sound situations and there you go.
http://www.learner.org/jnorth/tm/robin/Vocalizations.html
If for instance an animal makes a specific sound to call a mate. And I wanted to say that: "I was so horny I was like a chimpanzee in matting season". I would have to say a sound that the chimpanzee makes in mating season, this is a very flexible system, if the chimp makes different sounds depending on how desperate he is for a mate then I can choose a sound most fitting based on how desperate I am. I would also have to have a sound that I associated with myself my own identity. It gets complicated, but in the story they have figured it all out, somehow. The people in the story have been doing this for so long that they can now mimic the sounds of their world near perfectly.
Things like yesterday, today, and tomorrow could possibly be done by taking a sound and imagining how it sounds close to you or today, a little bit away and far away yesterday or further back, and tomorrow would be the sound you think the thing spoken of will will make. The sound you choose when referring to a day would depend on what you are talking about. If I said now I will wear the green shirt. I would have to give a sound to the subject of the sentence, what sound does my people associate with a shirt and it being put on, and what sounds have my people associated with the particular type of green my shirt is. Green Tara's green would be a soothing sound perhaps, but then such a people would also need sounds they use for even more subjective experiences.
Add to this that they are experts at body language and communicating with facial expression. They devote a whole phase of raising children to body language and facial expressions.
So we could always be creative in our task of finding a new word for the double.
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Its interesting to try to come up with different terms than double. Double, however, is the CC term used, so it still has its proper place. And if, per post one, we're going to speak of 1st, 2nd, 3rd attentions, which are also terms by CC (or really don Juan), I think its better to keep the term. Just dont get too hung up on the terms.
I liked how Vicki brought up the dynamics of the mysteries of her double, both male and female, different faces. It should come as no surprise my double, when ive been allowed to see thru "his eyes" when male, has been on a bloody battlefield on horseback, sword and shield, in a line, facing another line on horseback, sword and shield, kinda like that one Mel Gibson movie which escapes me now that he won tthe oscar for. Then 'charge' and slam into each other, stabbings, beheadings, horses fall. A vision of a past where I was no coward, but still, regardless there was probably a lot of karma involved in that.
Another life, in a zen monastery, getting admitted in as a child. I learned how zen monks get so apt at inner silence. As little kids wiggle and giggle after getting the zen masters 'stick' upside the head to shutup mind, over and over, eventually the zen monk kids in training will sit still and shutup mind.
Then a wandering vagabond who survived on reading the stars for others as a gypsy. Getting run out of town for being a dirty rat. Theres some magick involved with this one, that was a feminine one as I recall. But apparently its partly how I learned to do some of the magic and read palms and stars in past.
But still, in odd dreams or visions, or say seeing a movie and feeling some odd 'memory' springing forth, who is to say, these things are mysterious. I know, however, there is a double voice which says 'this is it!' and as I look at the world progressively, like I was meditating today, and the voice I heard from my double when connecting with was 'human beings have committed many atrocities. I never thought Id live to see the day they would commit the worst - destroying what they need the most - their own planet." I suppose I was doing this a bit as I was rereading Seth Speaks. Its true though. We have finally crossed the threshhold of no return on that one. The damage is done. We, at this point, are on the sinking titanic, anyone got the band ready to play music? Oh thats right, I pmed michael my physical address for his music. I will listen to it as I watch mother nature purge us from this planet for committing so many foolish atrocities thus far.
In the meantime while I do the workings to gain what wisdom I can, and have my own mental health issues, work with the family to do, when I do sit and dust my spirit link, and commune with my double, who shows me things through his eyes, then I see things in a different perspective. None of its linear, all of its mysterious, much of it will be about somehow he, will pull me to the place actually 'want' to go, after I shed this old body. Cause he doesnt want to return to this planet anymore than I do. lol. Thats a big part of the deal. It will be sad to not return, its like a home, but a lot of my path is also about going 'home' and that involves another one altogether, perhaps an original one which I bypassed on the road due to paying off some accumulated karmas.