Author Topic: Seeing  (Read 699 times)

Offline Josh

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Re: Seeing
« Reply #45 on: August 17, 2006, 05:57:41 AM »
Compression of time has to do with increase of awareness in terms of intensity and function.  As we all know, the perceptual experience of time itself is not a solid measured phenomena - even tho physical measurements of seconds and minutes and so forth can be made.  The expanded experience of time has to do with non-ordinary states, as in normal "everyday life" the mind is occupied with certain patterns and repetitious cycles that move in predetermined ways.

When additional awareness is brought to bear upon the moment of experience, time is "compressed" by the pressure of its increased intensity.  It is like having extra eyes around your head with which to see more things simultaneously.  The moment itself is not more full, it is already infinite - however our personal experience of it is expanded beyond the normal "everyday" scenarios.

In toltec terms, this has been referred to in different ways.  In the Second Ring of Power, the women speak about Elias and the way "the world did not touch him".  He comes to one of them during dreaming but she is unable to fully remember what he told her because he spoke "at a different speed".  These are references to the modality of a person who has fully moved into a richer and more expanded experience of the moment - their actions may appear odd and detached from those of other "everyday" people.  It is by virtue of their increased speed of awareness, by which the experience of time is therefore slowed or "compressed".  They experience more time than the average person, even though it still occurs within the same physical period of measurement.  Therefore their actions, perceptions and so forth are not based from an experience of time in the "normal" sense.

In particular the most potent tool for toltecs in this endeavor is "death as advisor".  Having death as your permanent advisor on all you experience is also the key to what they refer to as being a sorcerer, and having will.  It is a gateway to the required amount of concentration needed to acquire occult or non-ordinary powers, in this case on a permanent basis rather than sporadically from disparate sessions of meditations or other methods which are not constant, 24/7 activities.  The physical body always recieves a "shock" from awareness of its impending death.  In hormonal terms this triggers the "fight or flight" response and increases flow of adrenaline.  The practice of using "death as advisor" eventually results in a different baseline of physical consciousness than that of the "everyday" person.  The basic definition of "normal" then becomes permanently altered, at the deepest level - and the goal of the man of knowledge is to recognize its fluidity and thus remain able to always flux.  Even as noted in CCs books, sorcery as a goal in and of itself is a dead end street - its just another version of "normal" thats incredibly more dangerous, confusing and potentially a much worse lifestyle than that of the "everyday" person.  However, it does allow a break from the "everyday" world, and therefore it is the goal of seers to keep going, and break again from the sorcerers world, eventually being able to sustain themselves between all worlds.

The moment itself is infinite, even an expanded experience of time within the moment is not the end or final achievement.  In terms of sorcery, one persons experience and personal power may be more or less intense, fast, deep, etc. etc. - which is the basis for the nature of that worlds essential component: competition (or war).  It is a world of activity based on competition, and thus places massive focus on speed and supernatural power.  It is also the world which is most highly prone to jealousy, pride and so on.  Buddhists refer to this as the realm of Asuras.

However, the pitfalls of living within any particular world exclusively has been extolled by the toltecs as well.  The goal of the seer is to go beyond the worlds in terms of their binding influence on consciousness, and to not be locked into any particular worlds manifestation and its resultant perceptions.  Seeing is peircing through the appearances presented by any particular world, and grasping the essence which lies behind perception itself.  It always has to do with compression of time, because the essence of things lies outside time altogether.  Infinity is not measured in a linear sense of things happening in a particular order, one after the other.  However, it is possible to have perceptions outside the "everyday" flow of time which are not true seeing - and would instead simply be perceptions belonging to another world.  The expanded world of perceptions offered by sorcery is always presented as a trap by those traditions which seek true seeing.  They are incredibly more complex, detailed and in depth compared to those in the "everyday" world.  It is not so much a question of accuracy as it is a question of not having an open mind which goes beyond perception altogether... as accuracy of perception is always a relative thing.  You can accurately describe things from multiple perspectives of multiple worlds, in multiple ways. 

Unfortunately going into detail about true seeing is much more difficult with spoken or written language, and certainly impossible without firsthand experience - and once it has been recognized, there really isnt anything more to be said about it anyways.  While that may seem like a copout to some, you can prove it for yourself by direct experience.. and this is why it is always suggested.  Thats why many traditions focus their teachings on getting you there rather than trying to describe the end results in depth (which is basically impossible).

Other is.  Self must struggle to exist.

- Brian George

Jahn

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Re: Seeing
« Reply #46 on: August 18, 2006, 04:13:55 AM »
Unfortunately going into detail about true seeing is much more difficult with spoken or written language, and certainly impossible without firsthand experience - and once it has been recognized, there really isnt anything more to be said about it anyways.  While that may seem like a copout to some, you can prove it for yourself by direct experience.. and this is why it is always suggested.  Thats why many traditions focus their teachings on getting you there rather than trying to describe the end results in depth (which is basically impossible).

It is best to get there without too much talk. The inventory is such a block.

It is like riding a bike, we can talk about it for ages and never be able to ride it any way. we can never figure it out how we balance and take turns until we just do it. Now seeing is not that one can practice one step at the time but there are practices that leads to seeing and these can be done step by step.

And then to finally find the "switch" to seeing one must have practiced and emptied a great part of the old inventory.


One of the first greatest seeing I had was when I saw the beauty in pain and suffering. That tells a lot, it was a completely new perspective, detached but compassionate I saw the beuty in thousands years of suffering for mankind, in detail and en masse. Quite overwhelming.

 
« Last Edit: August 18, 2006, 04:18:15 AM by Juan Miguel »

Taimi

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Re: Seeing
« Reply #47 on: August 18, 2006, 05:16:46 AM »
I have noticed sometimes
first i read about something, a description of something, then i get the idea or conception how that something is supposed to be experienced. but it's just an imagination of how it is experienced. when i actually experience this thing, first i don't understand that i experienced this thing because i have created somekind of image of how it feels to experience this thing. later sometimes i realise oh! this must be the same thing that i read about.

nichi

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Re: Seeing
« Reply #48 on: August 18, 2006, 05:17:21 AM »
Taking the topic down a slightly different crook in the path. Or maybe not.
This is difficult to articulate, but something I have found myself doing for years, especially working in the psych hospital, is this, with people with whom I interact:

I observe how I feel and what I'm experiencing when I'm speaking to them, or them to me. This could be as simple as sympathy or empathy, but it branches out a bit where one sees a particular (unfamiliar) image of self suddenly. A role not of self, as one has stepped into any sort of engagement.

For example, with some patients I would feel myself bristle, as if I was cracking a whip. The ghost of me beating on or berating the one with whom I was speaking would sometimes come. It took me a while to see that this was how the other was experiencing me. I could actually hear the things I was expected to be saying -- all cruel and harsh things. The other would end up revealing a long history of abuse in their family.

It's a kind of seeing and not the only one, of course. But it becomes a good exercise of awareness to know it, in dealing with others  : uncaught, I've also seen it happen, like with coworkers, cruel and harsh things might actually begin to come of the mouth, in a bizarre response to a situation. The things said, when the awareness isn't there, become a demand set characteristic of the interaction, rather than a reflection of anything resembling reality.  (My theory here being that most of us are far more intuitive than we know.)
« Last Edit: August 22, 2006, 04:24:42 AM by Nichi »

erik

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Re: Seeing
« Reply #49 on: August 21, 2006, 04:52:48 AM »
Liked your insight very much, Joshua!

Offline Michael

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Re: Seeing
« Reply #50 on: August 21, 2006, 10:21:44 PM »
The things said, when the awareness isn't there, becomes a demand set characteristic of the interaction, rather than a reflection of anything accurately reflecting reality.

that's interesting nichi, once i worked it out, it was quite astute

nichi

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Re: Seeing
« Reply #51 on: August 22, 2006, 04:25:23 AM »
Thanks for pointing that out, m! I cleaned it up for understanding's sake!

The things said, when the awareness isn't there, become a demand set characteristic of the interaction, rather than a reflection of anything resembling reality.

~missed it in proofread, sorry
« Last Edit: August 22, 2006, 04:27:06 AM by Nichi »

 

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