Author Topic: US Elections 2008  (Read 1833 times)

Offline Angela

  • Acharya
  • *****
  • Posts: 981
Re: US Elections 2008
« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2008, 03:42:18 AM »
Great story. Reminds me about that warriors use everything in their tonal to advance on their path. But I also know how difficult it is when one is in the middle of such crisis.

   :)

It was extremely difficult.  I felt betrayed by people whom i had given so much time and energy.  I Love my work and am very passionate about it...for that I feel Blessed.  The creative Me was being smothered and it really was time to go.  But they stretched it over 3 months, starting with a "review", wanting me to sign waivers so I wouldn't sue them...ha!  I didn't have to sue them, I waited patiently for two years until the time was right.  I hear they're probably going to close their local office here within the next three years...so we must be making a  dent ;)
"If you stop seeing the world in terms of what you like and dislike, and saw things for what they truly are, in themselves, you would have a great deal more peace in your life..."

Offline Angela

  • Acharya
  • *****
  • Posts: 981
Re: US Elections 2008
« Reply #31 on: January 25, 2008, 03:54:03 AM »

I fully agree with Michael that we must have some kind of trust toward the government and the democratic process, in its best, are able to make corrections. But the situation today is much like cancer spreading.

As disheartening our government may be, there is still a glimmer of hope that we can put our trust in Someone.  Our only chance to change it,  is by our voting power.  It's all we have.  You can talk, complain, disagree...whatever, but it all boils down to that One vote and no matter what anyone says....that is power.

There was a story on the news here in Vegas.  Some people were confused about the Caucusing, they weren't allowed in after a certain time.  A fight ensued and the police were called.  Reminds of the saying: "There will be no change until there is a civil uprising".
"If you stop seeing the world in terms of what you like and dislike, and saw things for what they truly are, in themselves, you would have a great deal more peace in your life..."

Offline Angela

  • Acharya
  • *****
  • Posts: 981
Re: US Elections 2008
« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2008, 03:55:31 AM »
Found your voice there Ang (even time for me to find a new name for you).

keep it up - speak with passion!
;)

"If you stop seeing the world in terms of what you like and dislike, and saw things for what they truly are, in themselves, you would have a great deal more peace in your life..."

Offline Michael

  • Administrator
  • Rishi
  • ******
  • Posts: 18283
    • Michael's Music Page
Re: US Elections 2008
« Reply #33 on: January 25, 2008, 09:49:50 AM »
As disheartening our government may be, there is still a glimmer of hope

indeed - such was the case here in Aust. it went on so long that we were ground down, till i lost hope. but nonetheless, i knew perfectly well, democracies do eventually toss out governments, even if it is just a channel-changing exercise from a bored audience.

this is a fine balance, to see the government as the 'people's tool', and yet to also realise all governments are made up of humans who will always connive. the real problem is the level of humanity.

This brings in the whole issue, of are we witnessing the birth of a new sub-species of humanity, one that is more intelligent in heart, and more naturally sensitive to the earth? If so, which I do often feel myself, then it would normally take a long while, and unfortunately we don't have that much time.

Offline tommy2

  • Pir
  • ****
  • Posts: 706
  • An opportunity to achieve a great end.
Re: US Elections 2008
« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2008, 05:45:25 PM »
i am confident that there will always be enough time, m,
each time it is needed
t2f

erik

  • Guest
Re: US Elections 2008
« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2008, 06:54:25 PM »
i am confident that there will always be enough time, m,
each time it is needed

Out of curiosity, Tom: what makes you think there will be enough time?
Enough time for what?
Enough time for whom?

These questions arise probably from the same point of view your confidence does - leaving the ultimate responsibility for 'strategic affairs' to Spirit. It is up to Spirit to decide what becomes of us at the end of the day; it is up to Spirit to say whether humans as species should continue to exist.

Yet such an approach warrants, from my perspective, no optimism as such a decision is simply beyond the human realm. 'We' as beings encased into physical bodies can do the effort and implement Eagle's command to the best of our ability, but we decide nothing - as far as I understand.

Offline Quantum Shaman

  • Pir
  • ****
  • Posts: 510
  • Destruction of faith is the beginning of evolution
    • Quantum Shaman
Re: US Elections 2008
« Reply #36 on: January 26, 2008, 05:21:28 AM »
As disheartening our government may be, there is still a glimmer of hope that we can put our trust in Someone.  Our only chance to change it,  is by our voting power.  It's all we have.  You can talk, complain, disagree...whatever, but it all boils down to that One vote and no matter what anyone says....that is power.

Hey, Ang...  :)

There was a time when I was younger that I would absolutely have agreed, but in light of events in recent years, I'm just wondering if that is really true.  I mean... I voted for that guy who invented the internet (remember him?), and he actually DID win the election... but through some manner of manipulation of who-knows-what, Bro Gore did NOT end up in the White House, and we were treated to "four more years" of Brer Bush... and in the big picture, I'm not the least bit sure my vote matters - mainly because if the elections themselves are corrupt, or may be changed according to the whims of this bizarro thing called "the electoral college", then I might as well vote for Mr. Magoo & Underdog, since it has certainly come to appear that the elections are already decided long before ANY of us set foot in a voting booth.  Ergo... does my vote really matter?

Do I trust our government?  No.  Do I intend to run for office?  No.  Do I think it will make any difference having a woman in the White House?  No.  Will I vote?  Probably not.

Now, before I am lynched & flogged (c'mon, you know I'd enjoy it!  ;D), let me point out my reasoning for this as a warrior.  Basically, knowing that ALL of it is folly - including our government, our vote and our existence itself - I simply do not have the time or energy to waste "getting involved" in the illusions upon illusions which comprise the political arena.  When I really stand back and look at it from an energetic perspective, it is the equivalent  playing Risk in a burning house, with all the politicians insisting that we should join them in the game instead of reaching for the fire extinguisher that is only inches away.  It's the GAME that has become the focus, and the gamesters have lost all touch with "the real world".  Dining on lobster and caviar every night tends to remove one from any connection to the homeless woman in Los Angeles diving into dumpsters hoping for a scrap of discarded Big Mac.

I don't have any answers, except those I have found inside myself - and after that last election where the dude that won really didn't win, I threw in the towel and made myself a nation of one.  Am I disillusioned?  I hope so - because to be dis-illusioned would imply that one has seen the illusion and no longer chooses to participate in it.   8)  Doesn't mean I'm right or wrong, just means that instead of "getting involved" in the political illusions, I "get involved" in things that are closer to home.  For example...

The rain forests are being depleted, so I plant at least 4 new trees every year here on our property and donate when I can to organizations that promote reforestation. It won't change the world, but at the same time I feel it's something I can SEE, whereas no matter WHO ends up in the White House, the same old games are just going to continue in the same old ways.  We've been promised national healthcare for 20+ years and are no closer to it than we were when the words were first uttered.  We got out of Vietnam only to get into Iraq.  Different names, but it's the same games, over and over.

Sorry to be such a cynic about this.  I debated on whether to even say anything, but it seems to me that there was another side of this that needed to be heard, and that is simply to point out that it is ALL abject folly - including and especially politics at the national level.  Maybe (doubtful, but maybe) small-town politics or local city politics MIGHT have some hope to bring about change, but even that is unlikely, because what is really going on in "politics" is that people are fighting about the AGREEMENTS and the PROTOCOLS rather than really DOING anything about the things that would affect large numbers of "the people." By the time anyone decides on the right-and-proper wording of a bill, the issue has either resolved itself, or has moved into some manner of epidemic proportions so that it is no longer containable.  Ever see LIFE OF BRIAN?  While Brian is about to be crucified, his followers are wasting time drawing up petitions rather than just going out into the real world and rescuing him.  And, alas, that is how I have come to view politics here in the US (and probably in most other countries as well).

Back in the late 60s, I was an activist - a 14-year old kid right out there on the front lines of the anti-war protests, screaming out against the draft and the war and the whole foolish game of grown men running through the jungle shooting at the other guys hiding in the bushes. Even spent a night or two in lock-down for refusing to disperse when the nice policemen came along and gave the order to "Move along!"   Well, we've traded bushes for sand and and jungle for Afghani caves, but the game remains the same, and I do not believe it will ever change, because it is human nature to wage war, and a warrior's nature to *see* that and, as the old saying goes by don Juan, "When the sniper is present, I simply will not come around."

 Point being here - until we ALL refuse to play the games, the games will continue because that is simply the nature and the heavy gravity of folly.  Whether I vote or not, it will make no difference in a hundred years, let alone a million years.  So as a warrior, I choose my controlled folly accordingly.  Volunteer for some clean-up in a national park.  Plant a tree.  Buy a homeless kid a meal and give him a clean jacket.  At least those things are "real" to me - and I wholly admit that this is strictly my personal choice and nothing more.  I prefer to work with what I can see up close and personal, rather than trying to attach myself to some politician's campaign speech that promises what it will never deliver. That is MY controlled folly, just as it will be another warrior's controlled folly to get involved in the political arena. 

So... I hung up my protest signs, I put away my youthful vision of "world peace" and traded them in for a ruthless clarity which shows me that politics is never going to change anything, but only make it worse.  If we really believe our vote counts, then maybe the best thing we can do is not vote at all. Radical?  Sure, but look at it this way.  If NO ONE voted, that would send a much louder message than trying to sort through the aftermath to figure out who was able to manipulate the voting system most effectively. 

It just seems to me (personally and for myself only - not trying to convince anyone else) that don Juan, Jesus and Buddha probably didn't spend a lot of time reading through their voting materials the night before an election.  *heh*  I tend to think that our energy goes where we ourselves focus, and so I choose to focus on the things I CAN change rather than getting involved in the "global" stuff that seems to churn along no matter what I do or not-do.  While everyone else is at the polls in November, I'll be planting a eucalyptus or pine sapling.   :-\

The bottom line for me always comes down to one word:  folly.  It's what made our founding fathers leave England and set sail for a brave new world - for they had recognized the folly of a government that had become too large and too constricting to really do what it was "supposta" do - serve the needs of the people.  So, if anyone wants to set sail for the Martian shore or the red eye of Jupiter, sign me up and I'll be there ready to cook for the crew or stoke the fires that fuel the warp drive or take my turn at the helm.  That, to me, would "make a difference."  I'm there. I'm ready!

But will I vote in November?  Highly doubtful.  The election has already been decided.  All that remains is the dance of madness which precedes the formality of announcing "the winner".

D
PS - I'm really not looking to start a debate or argument... just wanted to put forth some opinions from the perspective of one who cannot help but see the folly.   By all means... ignore this post.   ;) 

"You have to be immortal before you will know how to become immortal."
Quantum Shaman  | Quantum Shaman on Facebook

erik

  • Guest
Re: US Elections 2008
« Reply #37 on: January 26, 2008, 10:32:41 AM »
Now, before I am lynched & flogged (c'mon, you know I'd enjoy it!  ;D), let me point out my reasoning for this as a warrior.  Basically, knowing that ALL of it is folly - including our government, our vote and our existence itself - I simply do not have the time or energy to waste "getting involved" in the illusions upon illusions which comprise the political arena.  When I really stand back and look at it from an energetic perspective, it is the equivalent  playing Risk in a burning house, with all the politicians insisting that we should join them in the game instead of reaching for the fire extinguisher that is only inches away.  It's the GAME that has become the focus, and the gamesters have lost all touch with "the real world".  Dining on lobster and caviar every night tends to remove one from any connection to the homeless woman in Los Angeles diving into dumpsters hoping for a scrap of discarded Big Mac.

Well said! I vote pretty much precisely because things are like you say. It is folly, utter folly to expect anything from a political process and politicians. There is nothing to be expected. Nothing at all.

Hence, I'm not concerned with the expectation.

Thus, I can simply vote and show to the endless darkness of the Universe that I do not agree with the destruction wrecked on this world and will never agree with it. I think, it actually matters.

Jahn

  • Guest
Re: US Elections 2008
« Reply #38 on: January 26, 2008, 08:42:55 PM »
Am I disillusioned?  I hope so - because to be dis-illusioned would imply that one has seen the illusion and no longer chooses to participate in it.   8)  Doesn't mean I'm right or wrong, just means that instead of "getting involved" in the political illusions, I "get involved" in things that are closer to home. 

PS - I'm really not looking to start a debate or argument... just wanted to put forth some opinions from the perspective of one who cannot help but see the folly.   By all means... ignore this post.   ;) 


There is a cancer spreading in the Dream of the planet and perhaps it is that poison that makes you "dis-illusioned".

As you point out - if one want to do something - one have to do it where one have the feet. Local engagement, clean away the dust on ones own backdoor. One can write in the newspaper too, or god forbidden, start a blogg.

Anyway, we got a new govenment that was very fresh. It was really a energy change and they have done many things that are benefitting for people that work and pay taxes. New brooms.

The old government was centered around one single (old) man and he could not engage
the rest of the party. The new government is a four part alliance and very much a team.




 
« Last Edit: January 26, 2008, 08:47:42 PM by Jahn »

Offline Quantum Shaman

  • Pir
  • ****
  • Posts: 510
  • Destruction of faith is the beginning of evolution
    • Quantum Shaman
Re: US Elections 2008
« Reply #39 on: January 27, 2008, 04:23:54 AM »
There is a cancer spreading in the Dream of the planet and perhaps it is that poison that makes you "dis-illusioned".

I'm finding that being dis-illusioned is the best thing that ever happened to me.   ;)  Having seen the illusion for what it is, I am free to make more "real" choices with regard to how I will deal with my controlled folly.  What's funny to me is that when people use the word "disillusioned" it is often in a more negative connotation - but when I really looked at that word and thought about it, it brought a smile to my face.  Dis-illusion-ed.  No longer connected to the illusion.  Huzzah!   ;D

As you point out - if one want to do something - one have to do it where one have the feet. Local engagement, clean away the dust on ones own backdoor. One can write in the newspaper too, or god forbidden, start a blogg.

That seems to be my level of involvement - and it's one I'm happy to fulfill.  I'm pretty active in certain local matters, largely because I CAN walk up to my city councilman and state my gripes, and at least I know he has heard me (though whether he LISTENS or not, is another matter).  At the level of national stuff, I've noticed that life doesn't change much for me based on who is in the White House.  Maybe that isn't true for other people, which would speak to why they choose to be involved in more "global" political issues.  Sure, we're told we can write to our congressman or send an email to the White House, but I'm pretty sure Dubya isn't going to read my email.  So... it's like shooting an arrow into the dark at a moving target - the chances of hitting anything are pretty slim.

Anyway, we got a new govenment that was very fresh. It was really a energy change and they have done many things that are benefitting for people that work and pay taxes. New brooms.

That's great, Jahn!  Send some of it over here, would ya?   8) 
"You have to be immortal before you will know how to become immortal."
Quantum Shaman  | Quantum Shaman on Facebook

Offline Angela

  • Acharya
  • *****
  • Posts: 981
Re: US Elections 2008
« Reply #40 on: January 27, 2008, 06:36:05 AM »
My point is simply this...I Am changing My world, and in in doing that I'm hopefully setting an example for others to change their world as well.  No to My world, but to their own in harmony.  I felt at times the same way Della has expressed.  But, I'm finally seeing the fruition of My intent.  And I'll be damn if I don't continue it through! 

My son and I drove around town on day of the caucusing here in Vegas.  We actually drove through the parking lot of our precinct...we were going to go back, and had we realized that it only lasted an hour, we would have stayed and participated.  By the time we wanted to return, it was over.  75 votes for Obama and 74 votes for Hillary.  I thought, "Oh shit, I should've gone in".  My vote would have made it even.  I found out later that they actually split it even...6 delegates for Obama and 6 delegates for Hillary.  But the message was...this is a very close race and every vote is going to count. 

Just driving around town and watching the news reports...the energy level and excitement from...and this is the most important part...From the Younger generations...Yes, OUR kids!.... it was at such an extreme level.  They Are smart and they are also picking up on something Spiritual.  They're Listening to us!!!!  They hold the key and Will find the way.  They were born amidst the technology that most of us Baby Boomers don't totally understand.  When my son was 4 yrs. old, he could operate the stereo, cd player, dvd player, and of course the computer (they used them at Day Care)... I remember getting out the Turntable...he said, "Wow Mom, what's that?"...heh!  They have the speed, the intelligence, the drive.  It is up to us to steer them in the appropriate direction...to me that direction is to, to.....oh, just look at everyone here's signatures...that should give you a start ;)

Hey, Della, I totally respect your point of view and I wouldn't blame you if you didn't vote.  But, my thought is, if we take a little of the tonal, sprinkle well with nagual, and vice a versa, it soon becomes one. ;)  :-* 

"If you stop seeing the world in terms of what you like and dislike, and saw things for what they truly are, in themselves, you would have a great deal more peace in your life..."

Offline Quantum Shaman

  • Pir
  • ****
  • Posts: 510
  • Destruction of faith is the beginning of evolution
    • Quantum Shaman
Re: US Elections 2008
« Reply #41 on: January 27, 2008, 11:50:55 AM »
My son and I drove around town on day of the caucusing here in Vegas.  We actually drove through the parking lot of our precinct...we were going to go back, and had we realized that it only lasted an hour, we would have stayed and participated.  By the time we wanted to return, it was over.  75 votes for Obama and 74 votes for Hillary.  I thought, "Oh shit, I should've gone in".  My vote would have made it even.  I found out later that they actually split it even...6 delegates for Obama and 6 delegates for Hillary.  But the message was...this is a very close race and every vote is going to count. 

Hi, Ang.  :)

I understand your enthusiasm - I even admire it.  For me, though, I must admit that the whole political thing is like an underwater circus.  It can trap my attention if I allow it, and as has been said many times, a warrior must choose her battles... and that was my primary point with my post.  Having seen the illusion, I could not participate in it as anything other than a jester - somewhat like how I view Genaro.  He just couldn't take much of anything serious. ;)  I find elections like that - I simply cannot take them seriously, anymore than I could take the election of the homecoming king & queen seriously back in high school.  *LOL*  When my AP shifted semi-permanently to the state of second attention (this occurred a few years ago - probably around 1996 or 1997... it was as if the world of the tonal ceased to have much significance, with regard to its machinations and its spiral dances.  It became to me like a ship in a bottle - still intact, but like a bubble of madness in so many ways.  So even if I WANTED to play in that world, I no longer fit inside the bottle... if you see what I mean... and so I had to shift my focus to what matters in my immediate world, and let go of my more political ideals (and I did have them at one time, many years ago).


Hey, Della, I totally respect your point of view and I wouldn't blame you if you didn't vote.  But, my thought is, if we take a little of the tonal, sprinkle well with nagual, and vice a versa, it soon becomes one. ;)  :-* 

Yup - and I totally respect your pov, too!  Heartfelt.

As for the latter... just a slightly different perspective, but I find the delight of the nagual to be that it stands apart from the tonal as the unknowable.  That is truly where I often find my greatest sense of inspiration - in the muse that cannot be caught.

Hope this makes sense.  At times I really do feel completely alien to this world - and I mean that quite literally.   :-*

With love,
D
« Last Edit: January 27, 2008, 12:10:21 PM by Quantum Shaman »
"You have to be immortal before you will know how to become immortal."
Quantum Shaman  | Quantum Shaman on Facebook

Offline Shamaya

  • Pir
  • ****
  • Posts: 471
Re: US Elections 2008
« Reply #42 on: January 28, 2008, 12:27:07 AM »
i am confident that there will always be enough time, m,
each time it is needed

Tommy I have to agree with you  :)  It's just something, for me, about having faith and trusting that as long as you are truely doing the best with what you have.  Leading you through the lessons you have to learn  :-\

To Della & Serafina - Kudos! Love the whole thing becuase you are each doing just what feels right for you and in each instance it makes a difference.  I mean that is the whole point of it all any way right?!  ;D

 :-*
The body is an instrument played by the Divine; listen to its music.
Reflect not, but respond to it with spontaneous right action in the moment.
Be the uninhibited dancer and move to the rhythm of Spirit.
© Barbara Atkinson

Offline Angela

  • Acharya
  • *****
  • Posts: 981
Re: US Elections 2008
« Reply #43 on: January 28, 2008, 12:34:55 AM »
The new government is a four part alliance and very much a team.

I like that ... a team :)  Here we have a "Cabinet" that advises the president.  IMO, these offices should be "elected", instead of being appointed by the president.   http://www.whitehouse.gov/government/cabinet.html
"If you stop seeing the world in terms of what you like and dislike, and saw things for what they truly are, in themselves, you would have a great deal more peace in your life..."

Offline Angela

  • Acharya
  • *****
  • Posts: 981
Re: US Elections 2008
« Reply #44 on: January 28, 2008, 12:41:01 AM »
Tommy I have to agree with you  :)  It's just something, for me, about having faith and trusting that as long as you are truely doing the best with what you have.  Leading you through the lessons you have to learn  :-\

To Della & Serafina - Kudos! Love the whole thing becuase you are each doing just what feels right for you and in each instance it makes a difference.  I mean that is the whole point of it all any way right?!  ;D

 :-*

Yes, Fade...in each one of our Tiny universes, it Does make a Huge difference for a variety of reasons ;).
 :-* :-* :-*

"If you stop seeing the world in terms of what you like and dislike, and saw things for what they truly are, in themselves, you would have a great deal more peace in your life..."

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk