Topic: WE'RE STUFFED!!!

[Michael]

Right, so they did it.
I presume in the first instance, this would be a Nato job, and they have said they are ready.

[Builder]

Right, so they did it.
I presume in the first instance, this would be a Nato job, and they have said they are ready.

I doubt it. NATO operates on the basis of consensus and Germany must be on board. If it says 'nein', it will be 'no'. Nor do I think anybody would be willing to push the issue in NATO - if Germans get pissed, they'll simply leave Afghanistan potentially triggering a rush to leave.

Turky is another one to block NATO action.

As of now it seems that French would try to kill Gaddafi first (UN mandate allows for ground strikes) and then start with the UK and other enthusiasts from taking out Gaddafi's armour and self-propelled artillery (Italian guns). It seems going towards another regime change carried out by Western arms (one of the most undesireable things to happen).

[Michael]

Good point - when I said Nato was ready, I meant the military said they were ready, not the politicians.

[Michael]

I have just read an article in the Aust press (Little logic to heated debate).

There are times I find myself wondering about something, and then find someone has written an article on exactly that matter. There are two cases recently - first about 'what the flower is going on at Fukushima!?' and I just read an article which explains I am not alone in this; secondly, this point:

Crisis after crises keep us on the edge of our seats, with the smack-in-your-face obviousness that we have done something, or at least played a crucial role in doing something, to this precious planet.

Baba, you will recall, posted a comedy YT to which I responded with some equivocation. The reason was probably lost on most, and I didn't explain - Baba left after that. What caused my reaction was a joke by a rather otherwise very interesting man, about the absurdity of "saving the planet". There are deeper levels to this joke, which Baba understood, but I doubt this man's audience did. However, in the current context, I feel these deeper levels are not relevant.

The top level of this joke, missed the point - no one is talking about saving the 'planet' as such - the term is directed to saving ourselves, and indirectly saving the eco-sphere which is maintaining our existence. Of course we would be under a huge hubristic arrogance to believe we can save such a massive and old cosmic object like this planet. But we can do something about what we ourselves have caused - we can avert and reverse the destruction our own ignorance and greed have brought about. That is what 'saving the planet' means. And we have already succeeded previously in individual cases - but unfortunately it seems, no longer.

What I have been wondering about, is why with all this chaos going on, never seen like it before in recorded history, is there still almost nothing being said about Global Warming?

Lenore, in her article says:

Most Australians accept the climate is warming but the public has become somewhat less confident about the proposition, even as the evidence has become more certain.

That's the point. Evidence is building up like a tidal wave (to use the age-old English expression), and yet in complete denial of this evidence, less people believe in it. She put the point perfectly - people believe the earth is warming, and yet they don't believe in 'Global Warming'.

You have to see here the level of emotional development of our species. We are perfectly capable of irrational and insane juxtapositions. Please, everyone in Soma, keep this in mind - because we are just as capable of this as that world out there.

She gives eminent reasons for why this has occurred, but in the end, it's all about the power of advertising and persuasion. Be warned - how many of your own cherished opinions were implanted with emotive efficacy into your brain?

But you will never admit to it!
Till the day you die.

[Jahn]

Baba, you will recall, posted a comedy YT to which I responded with some equivocation. The reason was probably lost on most, and I didn't explain - Baba left after that. What caused my reaction was a joke by a rather otherwise very interesting man, about the absurdity of "saving the planet". There are deeper levels to this joke, which Baba understood, but I doubt this man's audience did. However, in the current context, I feel these deeper levels are not relevant.

You refer to Baba, then do you refer to Josh at the old Toltec nagual Forum?

[Nichi]

There is an undercurrent of people who believe that all of that "fuss" about global warming is "crying chicken-little", that positive thinking will override all of it. 

[Michael]

You refer to Baba, then do you refer to Josh at the old Toltec nagual Forum?

He did call himself Baba in TNF, but he may have used other names as well - I vaguely think he did use Josh, but I can't recall confidently.

[Builder]

Crisis after crises keep us on the edge of our seats, with the smack-in-your-face obviousness that we have done something, or at least played a crucial role in doing something, to this precious planet.
...
You have to see here the level of emotional development of our species. We are perfectly capable of irrational and insane juxtapositions. Please, everyone in Soma, keep this in mind - because we are just as capable of this as that world out there.

She gives eminent reasons for why this has occurred, but in the end, it's all about the power of advertising and persuasion. Be warned - how many of your own cherished opinions were implanted with emotive efficacy into your brain?

Some things we make up, some things we know directly - they come through without any disturbance and interference of mind. Destruction of this world has never been a question for me as it is so blatantly obvious that our welfare societies (that is societies set up to satisfy our desire for wealth and security) do it.

It (the fuss) has been more about the question - what am I doing in this world?

Remove your passions, and have no hankering, and all will be revealed to you.

[Michael]

So it now appears Al Qaida will win in the Middle East after all. Violence is the only way - that message will find resonation now amongst the frustrated citizens.

[Builder]

So it now appears Al Qaida will win in the Middle East after all. Violence is the only way - that message will find resonation now amongst the frustrated citizens.

The reports say that Gaddafi's troops are in the suburbs of Bengahzi already. If he manages to quell the uprising, that would be a 'go' signal to all other autocrats and Al-Qaeda will indeed have its field day telling how the democratic path is not for Muslims.

[Jahn]

He did call himself Baba in TNF, but he may have used other names as well - I vaguely think he did use Josh, but I can't recall confidently.

That is Josh alright, his username was Baba.
Haven't heard from him, or about him, for ages. He must have passed his 30's by now.

[Jahn]

The reports say that Gaddafi's troops are in the suburbs of Bengahzi already. If he manages to quell the uprising, that would be a 'go' signal to all other autocrats and Al-Qaeda will indeed have its field day telling how the democratic path is not for Muslims.

That is Gaddaffi's definition of "cease fire".

Later, the rebels threw out his troops from Benghazi and they even got a plane shot down.

[Builder]

Later, the rebels threw out his troops from Benghazi and they even got a plane shot down.

It was a rebel plane shot down by Gaddafi forces (but more likely by rebels).

French have started air operations against Gaddafi troops. Some sort of vehicle (I'd guess a mobile command post) was destroyed among 4 tanks.

[Jahn]

It was a rebel plane shot down by Gaddafi forces (but more likely by rebels).

Do the rebels have warplanes?

Anyway, to shoot down a plane requires a lot of technique, especially when you have poor weapons.

[Builder]

The US and UK launched 112 cruise missiles at Libyan air defences to pave the way for unobstructed air patrols and ground attacks. The US took the lead/command of operations. We'll see if they will be hated or loved for that in the Arab world.

In the first phase of the operation, named "Odyssey Dawn", the US will target Libyan Integrated Missile Defence Systems, mainly near Tripoli and Misurata, officials said. French aircraft had initiated operations by targetting Libyan air fields.

It is not clear when the second wave of operations will begin, but Al Jazeera's Halkett reported that it would target Gaddafi's ground forces and tanks.