Topic: Two Doubles?

[Nichi]

Is it even possible to have two? Or even more?
I ask this generically, without specific details, for now. (And make no promises for the future, heheh.)

I'm not speaking of 'guides' per se -- at least I don't think I am. I realize there can be an unlimited number of those.

If it isn't "possible" to have 2 or more, and the same Double just presents in a variety of personae, on whose volition does s/he coalesce to be the recognizable entity one walks into upon death?

The older I get, the less control I attempt to exert. I rather enjoy those whom I've met on the other side.

Thanks,
V

[Quantum Shaman]

Is it even possible to have two? Or even more?
I ask this generically, without specific details, for now. (And make no promises for the future, heheh.)

I'm not speaking of 'guides' per se -- at least I don't think I am. I realize there can be an unlimited number of those.

If it isn't "possible" to have 2 or more, and the same Double just presents in a variety of personae, on whose volition does s/he coalesce to be the recognizable entity one walks into upon death?

The older I get, the less control I attempt to exert. I rather enjoy those whom I've met on the other side.

Thanks,
V

My experience of it has been that we have one double, but s/he can take any form at any time - throughout the space/time continuum and beyond. At first, I had a helluva time wrapping my mind around this, and VERY early on in my journey I was trying to get some clarity on it from Orlando, and he responded with a quip which essentially said, "...I am Vulcan, vampire, pirate, prince, beggar, thief, teacher, friend, guardian, fiend.  And these are just some of the things you have willed me to be."

As I became more knowledgeable on the path, I came to *see* that the double can take on any form (or none at all), and may serve as the "muse" as well as the teacher/guide.  Maybe today I need Orlando to teach me about petty tyrants, and so he might take on the persona of a warlord in ancient Rome, for example.  At some other time in my evolution, perhaps I want to learn about immortality, and so perhaps he might assume the persona of a vampire *heh*.  Early in my life, I was drawn to Star Trek and the character of Spock, largely because I needed to learn about "fragmentation" - and so my double was able to take on the persona of the "vulcan" in order to reveal that lesson to me directly and personally.

In the big picture, the double can be anything, and all of it is happening simultaneously:  the warlord in Rome, the seductive immortal, the divided vulcan, and so on.  Many times, the double will assume personas of various archetypes, which is why I use these "extreme" examples rather than more traditional human roles (father, mother, sister, brother). 

So, to answer your question, my sense of it is that we have only one double, but s/he may present in more than one manifestation, and may even do so simultaneously, since the double is not confined by our linear understanding of time.

On whose volition does s/he coalesce to be the recognizable entity one walks into upon death?    

I would say it's on our volition (the human self).  However, I also have a strong sense that the process is more or less instantaneous and automatic at that point, and the double/self combine & conjoin as a matter of intent, and a movement of will.  And, most importantly, an expression of unconditional love which manifests as the flowering of the totality of oneself.

That's how I've come to see it over the years.      And, of course, I'm curious as to why you asked.  *heh*  Is your double dancing with you?

[Nichi]

I have many interactions with my double, though I have to look for that certain mischief and sensation. I was convinced it was male for years, but then I came to see it as female. Still, the male version shows up, one way or the other.

Yesterday, I had a very vivid dream of a Chinese woman -- a new manifestation, if indeed it was the double. Likewise, I've seen an old Chinese man. And an American man, an Irish man, a Mexican man, an elegant European female named Nazca, etc. etc. There seems to be no limit.

There are guides who are not of the same personality/entity as well ... usually it's only once that I see them, and I don't feel that deep connection. With those it's very specific, usually: a message, a gift, vital information, etc. etc.

[Nichi]

For the past 6 months, I have hailed my double relentlessly, in the whole ordeal with my mother.

Whatever has transpired in the past 6 months has been mostly out of my conscious memory, so clogged I was with cold meds for a while. I can tell already my dreaming will return to my memory, here in Va, though.

[Quantum Shaman]

I have many interactions with my double, though I have to look for that certain mischief and sensation. I was convinced it was male for years, but then I came to see it as female. Still, the male version shows up, one way or the other.

Sounds to me like your double is exploring a wide range of possibility - a very good thing, imho, since it provides a broad spectrum of experience.  Orlando has been primarily male throughout my life, though has appeared as a female in Dreaming a time or two.  I always recognize him by the resonance we share, no matter what form he takes - rather like a frequency that is uniquely his/mine.

Yesterday, I had a very vivid dream of a Chinese woman -- a new manifestation, if indeed it was the double. Likewise, I've seen an old Chinese man. And an American man, an Irish man, a Mexican man, an elegant European female named Nazca, etc. etc. There seems to be no limit.

That's it exactly.  There is no limit.  That's why I've been able to experiment with the double as various archetypes - which is not only a helluva lot of fun, but I feel it also opens the door to a whole other range of power/possibility we don't often consider for ourselves as "mere" humans.  The whole bit about the Vulcan and the vampire... may sound silly to some, but since the double need not be confined by our human limitations, allowing our "muse" to take on non-human personas enables us to experience awareness outside the box, through gnosis.  Hard to put to words. 

(And, for the record, I'm not talking about the Hollywoodized version of vampires - but more the old legends of eternal beings who exchange energy directly from the universal source - so in essence they are "plugged in" to the energetic/synergetic universe directly).

Point being - by taking our double outside the realm of humanform manifestation, we can also begin to broaden our possibilities and enhance our totality and - last but not least - expand the range of our assemblage point dramatically.

[Nichi]

I always recognize him by the resonance we share, no matter what form he takes - rather like a frequency that is uniquely his/mine.

Yes, the resonance and deep connection and unspoken understanding is the ticket for me too.

[Nichi]

As for the "nonhuman", hmmm ... would you put power animals, for example, into the pot? Tulpas too? Is everything on the astral the double in thy view?

(Don't mean the question as disagreement ... just wondering what yer take is and expanding me own.)

On the astral, my life has been saved a few times by the animals and other unknown friends... just trying on a framework of my double expanding his/her experience.

Love,
V

[tangerine dream]

Is it even possible to have two? Or even more?
I ask this generically, without specific details, for now. (And make no promises for the future, heheh.)

I'm not speaking of 'guides' per se -- at least I don't think I am. I realize there can be an unlimited number of those.

If it isn't "possible" to have 2 or more, and the same Double just presents in a variety of personae, on whose volition does s/he coalesce to be the recognizable entity one walks into upon death?

Hey Vicki,  everything is "possible".
 

[tangerine dream]

That's it exactly.  There is no limit.  That's why I've been able to experiment with the double as various archetypes - which is not only a helluva lot of fun, but I feel it also opens the door to a whole other range of power/possibility we don't often consider for ourselves as "mere" humans.  The whole bit about the Vulcan and the vampire...

I don't quite understand this part... maybe I missed something, but to what do "Vulcan and the vampire" refer or what do they represent.   Do you have a link if I missed a thread?? 

[Quantum Shaman]

I don't quite understand this part... maybe I missed something, but to what do "Vulcan and the vampire" refer or what do they represent.   Do you have a link if I missed a thread?? 

It's from my initial response to Vicki:

My experience of it has been that we have one double, but s/he can take any form at any time - throughout the space/time continuum and beyond. At first, I had a helluva time wrapping my mind around this, and VERY early on in my journey I was trying to get some clarity on it from Orlando, and he responded with a quip which essentially said, "...I am Vulcan, vampire, pirate, prince, beggar, thief, teacher, friend, guardian, fiend.  And these are just some of the things you have willed me to be."

As I became more knowledgeable on the path, I came to *see* that the double can take on any form (or none at all), and may serve as the "muse" as well as the teacher/guide.  Maybe today I need Orlando to teach me about petty tyrants, and so he might take on the persona of a warlord in ancient Rome, for example.  At some other time in my evolution, perhaps I want to learn about immortality, and so perhaps he might assume the persona of a vampire *heh*.  Early in my life, I was drawn to Star Trek and the character of Spock, largely because I needed to learn about "fragmentation" - and so my double was able to take on the persona of the "vulcan" in order to reveal that lesson to me directly and personally.

[Quantum Shaman]

As for the "nonhuman", hmmm ... would you put power animals, for example, into the pot? Tulpas too? Is everything on the astral the double in thy view?

Depends, on a case by case basis, I think.  The double COULD take on the form of a power animal, but there are clearly power animals that are whole & separate unto themselves, too.  Tulpas are in a category all by themselves - a fascinating subject I'd love to delve into sometime as a result of some experiences I had back in my 20s and early 30s.  Just briefly, I think the double may actually start out as a "tulpa" in certain cases - a tulpa being simply a thoughtform that can take on manifestation under certain conditions.  In working with others over the years re developing/creating their double, observations have been made that initially the double may behave much as a tulpa - but as the seeker continues the work of creating the double, the "tulpa" may actually begin to be recognized as a projection of energy from its creator.  Now, obviously that's a WAY scaled down version.  Some would say tulpas can be dangerous, and I wouldn't disagree with that, so I would simply say for now that it's probably best (for me anyway) to look at it as follows:  the double MAY be mistaken for a tulpa, but someone else's tulpa would not EASILY be mistaken for your double (because of the resonance/frequency issue already mentioned).

Is everything on the astral the double?  Of course not.    But I'd say a fair amount of what people call their guides or their guardian angels actually ARE their own double.  But, yes, there are lots of other astral entities that are whole and viable unto themselves, that have nothing to do with our doubles.

(Don't mean the question as disagreement ... just wondering what yer take is and expanding me own.)

On the astral, my life has been saved a few times by the animals and other unknown friends... just trying on a framework of my double expanding his/her experience.

I've noticed that other beings may work WITH the double on the level of astral and Dreaming.  So, again, I think we know our doubles by the "vibe" they give off, for lack of a better definition.  One of the scariest experiences I ever had on the astral level was probably 30 years ago, when I found myself back in the weird old house where I grew up.  Lots of weird energies there, not all of it good - Florida swamplands, so lots of Cajun vibes, as well as some "restless" negativity (which I think may be responsible for the higher volume of missing/murdered children than almost anywhere else in the world, it seems... but that's another story for another time).  Anyway, point is... I found myself back there in astral to do battle with some horrendous force that was attached to the property.  I knew I was no match for it in a one-on-one battle, and yet at the critical moment, a "cat" jumped up into the window, distracting the astral presence, and giving me the opportunity to escape with my life.  In hindsight, I now know that this "cat" was a ruse - either the double, or more likely, a power animal summoned by the double, or perhaps even by myself, though I'm not sure I was a good enough warrior back then to be summoning power animals... but who knows?

What I've really learned over the years is that so much of what we tend to think of as "extant" really isn't.  Problem is, when most folks realize the kind of power they really DO have, it scares them shitless, and they go running right back to the comfort zones of religion, which will always be happy to tell them the power is outside themselves.  (Now, please put $20 in the collection plate, say 3 Hail Cthulu's, and be afraid, be very afraid.)  *LOL*

Sorry... feeling a bit irreverent this morning.  

[Nichi]

You do hit on a certain issue at the beginning and end of the post: what is "me" and what is "other"?  I myself am of the mind that there is both: what I've created and a whole universe or two which I did not create. Furthermore, that a central part of the Path is learning discernment of each, and hopefully honing those creation-skills in the process.

Not that tulpas can't carry a lot of (dangerous, as you say) power, but I always sense an artificial, mental, contrived, forced quality with them. That even if they acquire their own momentum and will, there's a certain emptiness there. This is a different recognition than that of the double, which I have always gleaned beckons from the other side of the door.

We could go on. I definitely agree with you here:

Is everything on the astral the double?  Of course not.    But I'd say a fair amount of what people call their guides or their guardian angels actually ARE their own double.  But, yes, there are lots of other astral entities that are whole and viable unto themselves, that have nothing to do with our doubles.

Thanks all around, Della, for sharing your take. It all started with my trying to identify the Chinese lady from a dream the other night, which sent me to revisit these other questions.
Interesting stuff.

[Michael]

My experience of it has been that we have one double, but s/he can take any form at any time

concur.
but it leads to a problem of distinguishing who is what in our subtle life.

I consider it very important to be able to sense who we are really dealing with - in all areas of life. But that is another subject.

[Michael]

Yesterday, I had a very vivid dream of a Chinese woman -- a new manifestation, if indeed it was the double.

Yes, I certainly feel that was your double. Manifesting that way for a reason, or for no reason.

[Quantum Shaman]

Not that tulpas can't carry a lot of (dangerous, as you say) power, but I always sense an artificial, mental, contrived, forced quality with them. That even if they acquire their own momentum and will, there's a certain emptiness there. This is a different recognition than that of the double, which I have always gleaned beckons from the other side of the door.

I know what you mean about the contrived, forced quality.  I think that's what we see when the tulpa is "undeveloped" or in almost an "infant" state.  One thing about tulpas is that they are not really self-sustaining unless they are nurtured in an ongoing basis.  I think it's actually pretty easy to create a tulpa (even unknowingly and unintentionally).  But as I understand it, tulpas don't last unless they are infused with the energy of their creator - which would be a more intensive process, and MIGHT result in the double becoming the "projection" of the self rather than just a transient thought form.

Not sure this is making sense - would take a lot more exploration.  It's just a fascinating subject to me, so I'm having fun processing it through this conversation.