Topic: Goddess of Folly

[niamhspark]

Or blind folly, better said: http://www.theoi.com/Daimon/Ate.html

Actually has a few references to her name.

[niamhspark]

Ate

http://www.answers.com/topic/ate-2

Ate, a Greek word for 'ruin, folly, delusion', is the action performed by the hero, usually because of his hubris, or great pride, that leads to his death or downfall. There is also a goddess by that name (Até) in Greek mythology, a personification of the same.

In Homer's Iliad she is called eldest daughter of Zeus with no mother mentioned. On Hera's instigation she used her influence over Zeus so that he swore an oath that on that day a mortal descended from him would be born who would be a great ruler. Hera immediately arranged to delay the birth of Heracles and to bring forth Eurystheus prematurely. In anger Zeus threw Ate down to earth forever, forbidding that she ever return to heaven or to Mt. Olympus. Ate then wandered about, treading on the heads of men rather than on the earth, wreaking havoc on mortals.

The Litae ('Prayers') follow after her but Ate is fast and far outruns them.

Apollodorus (3.143) claims that when thrown down by Zeus, Ate landed on a peak in Phrygia called by her name. There Ilus later, following a cow, founded the city of Ilion, that is Troy. This splendid flourish is chronologically at odds with Homer's dating of Ate's fall.

In Hesiod's Theogony the mother of Ate is Eris ('Strife'), with no father mentioned—so one can imagine Ate as daughter of Zeus by Eris if one wishes.

In Nonnos' Dionysiaca (11.113), at Hera's instigation Ate persuades the boy Ampelus whom Dionysus passionately loves to impress Dionysus by riding on a bull from which Ampelus subsequently falls and breaks his neck.

In the play Julius Caesar, Shakespeare introduces the goddess Ate as an invocation of vengeance and menace. Mark Antony, lamenting Caesar's murder, envisions "And Caesar's spirit, ranging for revenge, With Ate' by his side come hot from Hell, Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war, ..."

[Nick]

the resent mentioning of hero's is very interesting to me... strikes a cord with something from my dreams of late.

[niamhspark]

the resent mentioning of hero's is very interesting to me... strikes a cord with something from my dreams of late.

Have you read Campbell's "The Hero With A Thousand Faces?" If not, you should read it. One of the best works on the Path of the Hero.

[Nick]

no but I shall put it on my endlessly growing list of books I will never have a chance to read cause the list is already to big, damb you temptress! 

[Nick]

as far as I can see the path of the hero isn't so different from that of the warrior except the warrior seeks to save himself above all else.

seems selfish to the selfish, but it is the only way to go, no?

[Michael]

the word hero can be interpreted in many ways, but the common meaning is a quality bestowed by others - it is a social status. thus the identity of 'hero' is one seen in the eyes of others.

'a person who is admired for their courage or outstanding achievements.'(from my dictionary)

warrior on the other hand is a personal identity. it is not dependant on the opinion of others - thus the identity of 'warrior' is one seen in one's own eyes.

a fallen hero is a social disgrace, whereas a fallen warrior is a personal disgrace.

furthermore warrior is not in itself glamorous, it is more of a burden of posture for those who can't see.

the hero's temple is filled with ghosts.

but we all need heroes - they are our inspiration, they spur us on, as long as they spur us to become warriors instead of heroes.

[niamhspark]

no but I shall put it on my endlessly growing list of books I will never have a chance to read cause the list is already to big, damb you temptress! 

Heh heh (((you)))

[niamhspark]

the word hero can be interpreted in many ways, but the common meaning is a quality bestowed by others - it is a social status. thus the identity of 'hero' is one seen in the eyes of others.

'a person who is admired for their courage or outstanding achievements.'(from my dictionary)

warrior on the other hand is a personal identity. it is not dependant on the opinion of others - thus the identity of 'warrior' is one seen in one's own eyes.

a fallen hero is a social disgrace, whereas a fallen warrior is a personal disgrace.

furthermore warrior is not in itself glamorous, it is more of a burden of posture for those who can't see.

the hero's temple is filled with ghosts.

but we all need heroes - they are our inspiration, they spur us on, as long as they spur us to become warriors instead of heroes.

I thought warriors have ghosts too?

[Jahn]

I thought warriors have ghosts too?

The goal is to get rid of them - so when done with it, warriors have no ghosts - but then there is the Unknown.

[Nick]

the word hero can be interpreted in many ways, but the common meaning is a quality bestowed by others - it is a social status. thus the identity of 'hero' is one seen in the eyes of others.

'a person who is admired for their courage or outstanding achievements.'(from my dictionary)

warrior on the other hand is a personal identity. it is not dependant on the opinion of others - thus the identity of 'warrior' is one seen in one's own eyes.

a fallen hero is a social disgrace, whereas a fallen warrior is a personal disgrace.

furthermore warrior is not in itself glamorous, it is more of a burden of posture for those who can't see.

the hero's temple is filled with ghosts.

but we all need heroes - they are our inspiration, they spur us on, as long as they spur us to become warriors instead of heroes.

how you contrast it is what I was thinking. the warrior lives for himself not for society and thus is there to save himself, at times esp. from himself. the similarity that I saw was in the spirituality often associated with the struggles of the hero. the hero leaves the comforts of his normal life to go on an adventure into the unknown. the warrior often does mucht the same but the reasons are different. were the hero does what he does for glory and honer that is based ont he views of others, the warrior adventures into the unknown for his own reasons grounded in his or her own development, and it is important that the warrior not care what society thinks.

[Michael]

the hero does what he does for glory and honer that is based on the views of others,

that's a bit severe ian. i'd say heroes head off to their exploits of courage out of an inner drive, much as a warrior. just that the appellation 'hero' is projected on to them by others once those exploits are known. if someone headed into their exploits to be a 'hero', then such a person is seeking glamour, but that is true for almost everyone on the path, at the beginning.

a hero is usually a person who has a solid store of courage and energy to match. a warrior is a more strategic approach - one who sets ones intent to adopt a life of struggle as the best way to live - thus it is more deliberate, whereas a hero reacts with energy and courage to a situation that pops up.

recently i heard on the radio the first man to win the Victoria Cross in Australia, in fact he should have won it three or four times in WWI. He returned to Aust with the greatest popular welcome that had ever occurred at that time. Yet he was a humble type of person, fiercely protective of his men and those he ever served in his life, which eventually killed him through over work.

such people and their exploits are magnificent and should be celebrated - they are so inspiring!

a warrior is a lonely figure, who turns her life into a sacred battle, and no one ever knows, except her. she does it for the honour of her own spirit, and walks silently a road of knowing what lies ahead is struggle, and she is ready. she knows she will be alone in her struggle, and she accepts that. her eyes are on a point on the horizon, and her guiding principle is cold determination, right through the illusion of death.

[Nick]

such people and their exploits are magnificent and should be celebrated - they are so inspiring!

a warrior is a lonely figure, who turns her life into a sacred battle, and no one ever knows, except her. she does it for the honour of her own spirit, and walks silently a road of knowing what lies ahead is struggle, and she is ready. she knows she will be alone in her struggle, and she accepts that. her eyes are on a point on the horizon, and her guiding principle is cold determination, right through the illusion of death.

beautiful. and thank you for reminding me that I was being severe, do that sometimes  .

I know what you mean by heros being inspiring.
though hero worship can be a bad thing, no? a lot of kids I knew growing up would pick movie stars or similiar as their hero/role model. funny thing usually they would pick an actor not because of the skill of the actor or some great achievement or the other, but because they actor was pretty and or wealthy. they called this a hero! 

growing up my heros were mostly fictional. usually comic book super heros and they helped inspire me to take this road in life. if I wasn't a warrior I would have probably fashioned myself into some sort of vigilanty hero 

[Jahn]

a lot of kids I knew growing up would pick movie stars or similiar as their hero/role model. funny thing usually they would pick an actor not because of the skill of the actor or some great achievement or the other, but because they actor was pretty and or wealthy. they called this a hero! 

And ...?

What is wrong with that, to be pretty and rich?
Please take a look on these beliefs of yours. I know modern western society have a wierd focus on form and all of its adverse effects but behind the choice there is energy. I prefer the energy of abundance and good health before poorness and illness. So would the kids.

It is nothing spiritual in poorness itself. It can be a good challenge to be poor and live among the trash. I't will  probably make a miracle to step out of the wealthy society and live like an homeless for instance. Some have tried it for sure both intentionally and unitentionally. But my own challenge (and many with me) lies today in handling power and wealth. The one thing is not more spiritual than the other. Because ....  a warrior use everything that he got available in his Tonal in the purpose for growth and challenges.

[tommy2]

Amen, brother.