Author Topic: Foreign Installation and two minds  (Read 287 times)

erik

  • Guest
Re: Foreign Installation and two minds
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2009, 08:08:47 AM »
even the drama of the last week, has garnered, flowed, right into the Heart of the FI for a REASON.
And who knows, perhaps soma will be able to pick itself up on two legs and walk right thru the Cosmic Vagina, lol.

So that there would be no talking things into an 'acceptable form' - the drama was clearly initiated by one person and there is nothing wrong, nor has been wrong with Soma. This is a very personal message to you, Ellen - don't try to put a spin of acceptability on these events. The fact that we keep talking here does not make certain actions or statements any more acceptable.

Offline Firestarter

  • Ellen
  • Rishi
  • *
  • Posts: 14770
  • Love You ALL To The Moon and Back...
    • SIR
Re: Foreign Installation and two minds
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2009, 08:11:00 AM »
So that there would be no talking things into an 'acceptable form' - the drama was clearly initiated by one person and there is nothing wrong, nor has been wrong with Soma. This is a personal message to you, Ellen - don't try to put a spin of acceptability on these events. The fact that we keep talking here does not make certain actions or statements any more acceptable.

Im sorry Juhani, but I have already told Michael I will not be arguing with folks, and this thread will not be going off topic by myself. I am entitled to my observations, as you are yours, and right now soma is dealing with the foreign installation. Michael said to read the exerpt, then go look out into the world. That is what I intend to do, as I am also looking at what transpired and why things went the way they did.

Now if you shall excuse me....
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

erik

  • Guest
Re: Foreign Installation and two minds
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2009, 08:14:56 AM »
Yes, by all means, deal with what you see appropriate, but please remember where the thin line cutting off unacceptable is.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2009, 08:16:41 AM by Yellow hat »

Offline Firestarter

  • Ellen
  • Rishi
  • *
  • Posts: 14770
  • Love You ALL To The Moon and Back...
    • SIR
Re: Foreign Installation and two minds
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2009, 08:17:56 AM »
Yes, by all means, deal with what you see appropriate, but please remember where the thin line cutting off unacceptable is.

Am I excused Juhani, or do you need to PM me and take it there? Cause I already said, im only discussing foreign installation and how it may relate to us in soma and the 'threshold.'
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

erik

  • Guest
Re: Foreign Installation and two minds
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2009, 08:21:40 AM »
Am I excused Juhani, or do you need to PM me and take it there? Cause I already said, im only discussing foreign installation and how it may relate to us in soma and the 'threshold.'

This a suggestion only - try to change your angle of approach to issue from trying to deal with 'all of us in Soma' to looking at yourself personally and dealing with installation in you. It is a purely personal matter for each of us.

Offline Firestarter

  • Ellen
  • Rishi
  • *
  • Posts: 14770
  • Love You ALL To The Moon and Back...
    • SIR
Re: Foreign Installation and two minds
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2009, 08:25:48 AM »
This a suggestion only - try to change your angle of approach to issue from trying to deal with 'all of us in Soma' to looking at yourself personally and dealing with installation in you. It is a purely personal matter for each of us.

We are dealing with foreign installation and the threshold, not 'me' Juhani. Now, this is what Im gonna do. Im gonna pm you, and there we can act like an old married couple so you can get your rocks off for the day. Til then, I will not allow you - on this thread - to cause me to engage, considering I told michael I will be dissassociating myself from folks at soma who do not have my best interest.
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

Offline Quantum Shaman

  • Pir
  • ****
  • Posts: 510
  • Destruction of faith is the beginning of evolution
    • Quantum Shaman
Re: Foreign Installation and two minds
« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2009, 11:19:10 AM »
One of the things I love so much about Michael,  (though it used to drive me bonkers!!)  is that he's adept at telling you everything you need to know without actually saying it.  It's a great talent.   One that I, myself hope to have one day. 


Yes, certainly an excellent quality.  However, my point was that if something is of such vital importance, how long is it reasonable to take that more subtle approach?  If the house is on fire or the wolves are at the door, subtlty then becomes a form of patience no one can really afford.  (No disrespect to Michael intended). 

Also, keep in mind that sometimes it's up to you (generic) to ask questions that might facilitate an answer.  Otherwise, most wo/men of knowledge I know figure your silence indicates a satisfaction with where you are.  We are all active participants in our own evolution - waiting for someone to tell you (or not) what to do or not-do is just another form of following - again, no disrespect intended.

If you think someone else has Knowledge or information you need, the only way to be sure is to ask.  The worst they can do is say no.

But, then again, I'm much more direct.  Neither here nor there, just a predilection.  :)

"You have to be immortal before you will know how to become immortal."
Quantum Shaman  | Quantum Shaman on Facebook

Offline Firestarter

  • Ellen
  • Rishi
  • *
  • Posts: 14770
  • Love You ALL To The Moon and Back...
    • SIR
Re: Foreign Installation and two minds
« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2009, 11:30:21 AM »
But, then again, I'm much more direct.  Neither here nor there, just a predilection.  :)



Yay! Im not the only one! (LOL just kidding).
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

Ke-ke wan

  • Guest
Re: Foreign Installation and two minds
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2009, 02:28:46 PM »
Yes, certainly an excellent quality.  However, my point was that if something is of such vital importance, how long is it reasonable to take that more subtle approach?  If the house is on fire or the wolves are at the door, subtlty then becomes a form of patience no one can really afford.  (No disrespect to Michael intended). 



Like don Juan says -- We have no time for impatience.   ;)

~

In the case when the wolf is at the door,  it is my responsibility to listen to what Michael has been saying all along and figure out where to go from there.

Hopefully something will click and I will do what needs to be done. 

Thing is,  when the wolf is at the door,  we usually tend to act from a place directly connected with Spirit rather than the foreign installation.

   

erik

  • Guest
Re: Foreign Installation and two minds
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2009, 05:39:49 PM »
There are predilections among naguals as well: some talk a lot (DJ described himself that way), others simply and mercilessly put you through experiences and leave surviving, comprehending and assimilating them to you (Julian, teacher of Miguel Ruiz), some are outright weird (Elias).

Offline daphne

  • Rishi
  • ******
  • Posts: 1560
Re: Foreign Installation and two minds
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2009, 06:36:36 PM »
I think if anything, much of where things can get muddled is when we misinterpret energy behind words. Or intent behind words, if you will. Ive seen that on various occasions, so I try to utilize words instead, in hopes nothing will be mistaken in what im trying to convey. But alas, doesnt always work that way.


As I see it, really only the foreign installation can misinterpret the energy or intent behind words. It's what's it good at, to keep itself in the number 1 position. When we can recognize the speakings of our own foreign installation, is probably when we can see the door. Passing through it though, is another thing. The tug between the 2 minds. When we allow it, the foreign installation has no power.  For me, it's a continual process, alertness and awareness every moment. It is so easy to sink into the comfort of the foreign installation. It validates everything. In a way, it's like whether we react, or chose to respond. Though that choice can only be in the moment. It is in the moment when we can either dump the foreign installation, or not. It's war.
"The compulsion to possess and hold on to things is not unique. Everyone who wants to follow the warrior's path has to rid himself of this fixation in order not to focus our dreaming body on the weak face of the second attention." - The Eagle's Gift

Offline daphne

  • Rishi
  • ******
  • Posts: 1560
Re: Foreign Installation and two minds
« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2009, 06:42:28 PM »
There are predilections among naguals as well: some talk a lot (DJ described himself that way), others simply and mercilessly put you through experiences and leave surviving, comprehending and assimilating them to you (Julian, teacher of Miguel Ruiz), some are outright weird (Elias).

Would be nice to have something from all! Such a great balance! There is a time for talk, a time for doing, and a time when weirdness serves! In actuality, we are probably drawn to one type or another. 
"The compulsion to possess and hold on to things is not unique. Everyone who wants to follow the warrior's path has to rid himself of this fixation in order not to focus our dreaming body on the weak face of the second attention." - The Eagle's Gift

Offline daphne

  • Rishi
  • ******
  • Posts: 1560
Re: Foreign Installation and two minds
« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2009, 07:56:40 PM »
Had a cuppa tea and thought about this. Ellen is quite right. The foreign installation, and it's outcome, is in soma. The fact that we discussing it shows that.
Before I ever heard of the tern "foreign installation" I recognized it. Very easy to spot. I just asked myself, where did that thought come from. Terming it the foreign installation gives us a better hold on seeing it and so being able to do something about it.
Whether it came about from one person, or more, matters not. That it is here for discussion does.
For many years, I considered myself a fraud. Rather harshly in retrospect, though nevertheless true. It came about because I recognized utterances coming from a part of myself that somehow didn't ring true; true to me. Working on it was hard, and I am still working on it. It pervades everyday life. That is why I also enjoy my solitude so much. There is no place for the foreign installation in that. It needs others to feed it and in turn to feed them. It also is a part of our human form, hence the emphasis in Toltec of releasing the human form.  And not only in Toltec, also in many other paths; though it goes by different names.

Here in soma. we follow different paths, each path is very individual to each of us, and indeed can only be so. Acceptance of others paths and ways, leads to a diminishing of the foreign installation's control. Acceptance though, has to be double sided.  Without that we have conflict and end of any constructive discussion.  Thing is, about discussions, that often they lead nowhere. They really are a platform for one to express their own views - as I am doing here. Nice for a while, though like anything that is not face-to-face, loses it's impact as time moves on and we have moved on to other aspects of our life, and have somehow lost the thread. That, personally is my own problem with discussion. There is only so much I can say. After that it becomes a repetition, like a stuck record that cannot move on. And move on is what I want.

We are at a threshold, how are we going to deal with it, and do we even know what that threshold is? I suppose, each of you, like myself, have our own thresholds which together make up soma at any one time.
"The compulsion to possess and hold on to things is not unique. Everyone who wants to follow the warrior's path has to rid himself of this fixation in order not to focus our dreaming body on the weak face of the second attention." - The Eagle's Gift

Offline Michael

  • Administrator
  • Rishi
  • ******
  • Posts: 18283
    • Michael's Music Page
Re: Foreign Installation and two minds
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2009, 10:43:09 PM »
Thanks Della, a good question, and it is timely a few words be spoken on this matter.

For most members of Soma, this is their primary sanctuary for sharing their real inner journey in this life. We have known each other now for years - the forum’s names change, but the association doesn’t much vary. We have our own personal topography of evolution in this life, but due to our association, there is an underlying group spirit that is influenced by and influences each of us.

We are arriving at a threshold. Individually that is at different stages, but due again to our association, that threshold is also embedded in the spirit of the group, currently that means Soma. Soma is experiencing a Kundalini event - for at least since the beginning of this year, I have been feeling the restless stirrings. In the last few months I have been feeling this more pronounced, and so I have been quietly seeding Soma with a few critical inputs.

There has been a suggestion that the occasional reduced intensity of posting and engagement in Soma is a sign of its impending demise. This is a superficial view. Soma like all agglomerations goes through tides of low and high intensity, which do not correlate with the relevance and significance of its deeper energetic flow. It does not mean that because many posts are firing, the quality of interaction is more significant. It does help the social side of Soma, but the true energetic tides often flow in quite different cycles - and these are commonly longer cycles.

My earlier comments in this thread were referring to specific events, and I am not going to tempt the gods by blabbing of these before they have fully manifested. That however does not preclude me from drawing attention to the astral energies at play here currently.

Many members are now experiencing critical thresholds in their own lives - either upcoming, in process or just passed. These personal thresholds are not only personal - each of us is energetically interwoven in the group spirit - our own struggles and arrivals feed in and are fed out of the group spirit. This means that we can not only draw support and shakti from the ‘peloton’ - the group spirit within Soma - but our personal efforts and achievements foster the peloton’s deeper transformations.

As a group, we have known each other for much longer than our current internet connection - it goes back beyond the physical. We are fast approaching a threshold which is critical for the work we are all doing internally - critical for this life. You can’t just create a group engaged in spirit development and not activate a deeper transformational process. That process has been activated and is now reaching the summit of watershed for the purpose of Soma in this life. How we negotiate this watershed is pivotal for our group’s purpose and our own purpose in this life.

The peloton is picking up speed - the inner impulse of transformation is bubbling and drawing closer to the surface. We are cycling past many on the road side who have ‘stood aside’ and given up the true fight for this life. They watch us as we speed by. We take the ‘point’ in turn - sharing the extra strain of shouldering the wind. Now it is time to awaken and invest the astral spirit of Soma with conscious vivification.

Imagine the Kundalini of Soma stirring and surging upwards. See the threshold like a summit on a long assent we have been climbing since we found each other. Look penetratingly with your astral eyes into the lower layers of Soma’s spirit and see what you can of its evolutionary surge. Thus merging your astral being with the astral being of our group’s purpose. Much shakti can be drawn down to assist our own threshold events through this. Use Soma as a common powerhouse to vitalise our own struggle and pending achievement.

There is one exercise that when done regularly, can assist this whole process. I will continue to seed the transformative energies as those seeds are passed to me, but we can each prepare ourselves and thus facilitate the advent of a task that we have come together in this life to enact. I am referring here to the Death Walk.

The Death Walk

You are on Death Row. the call comes through - you’re next. You stand up and walk slowly towards the door, knowing that behind that door, it all ends. How are you to walk?

Feel your double inside you, bent over and cramped within your tiny frame. Allow your double to unbend, feel it reaching up to its full height and power - feel its ownership of the situation - its rightful sovereignty. Walk forward deliberately, knowing this is your last walk, your last moments. This is your Death Walk.

Practice this walk whenever you can, until it becomes calm, natural and graceful.

But the best time to practice is when you have to break what you are doing to go to the toilet. Pissing and crapping are what we call inconvenient truths. Inconvenient because we want to get on with what we are doing, but instead we have to drop that and head of to the bathroom. That is how death also comes to us. So that is a perfect time to practice the Death Walk. There is nothing more truthful, interfering and mundane, than having to drop our activity, and head off to pinch a loaf ... or die.

Grasp the moment, acknowledge the call has come. Accept it - stand and walk with dignity and presence. Stop before the doorway, knowing that you will not come back through again. This is it.

Death in the astral means major change. That is what we are facing - what I have described above as the imminent threshold. The Death Walk is also our threshold walk. Nothing will be the same again. If we practice this walk, we prepare ourselves in the best way for a transformation that will launch us into a destiny selected long before we came to this moment, this life.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2009, 11:33:49 PM by Michael »

Offline Quantum Shaman

  • Pir
  • ****
  • Posts: 510
  • Destruction of faith is the beginning of evolution
    • Quantum Shaman
Re: Foreign Installation and two minds
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2009, 11:24:11 PM »



Thanks Della, a good question, and it is timely a few words be spoken on this matter.

For most members of Soma, this is their primary sanctuary for sharing their real inner journey in this life. We have know each other now for years - the forum’s names change, but the association doesn’t much vary. We have our own personal topography of evolution in this life, but due to our association, there is an underlying group spirit that is influenced by and influences each of us.

We are arriving at a threshold. Individually that is at different stages, but due again to our association, that threshold is also embedded in the spirit of the group, currently that means Soma. Soma is experiencing a Kundalini event - for at least since the beginning of this year, I have been feeling the restless stirrings. In the last few months I have been feeling this more pronounced, and so I have been quietly seeding Soma with a few critical inputs.

There has been a suggestion that the occasional reduced intensity of posting and engagement in Soma is a sign of its impending demise. This is a superficial view. Soma like all agglomerations goes through tides of low and high intensity, which do not correlate with the relevance and significance of its deeper energetic flow. It does not mean that because many posts are firing, the quality of interaction is more significant. It does help the social side of Soma, but the true energetic tides often flow in quite different cycles - and these are commonly longer cycles.

My earlier comments in this thread were referring to specific events, and I am not going to tempt the gods by blabbing of these before they have fully manifested. That however does not preclude me from drawing attention to the astral energies at play here currently.

Many members are now experiencing critical thresholds in their own lives - either upcoming, in process or just passed. These personal thresholds are not only personal - each of us is energetically interwoven in the group spirit - our own struggles and arrivals feed in and are fed out of the group spirit. This means that we can not only draw support and shakti from the ‘peloton’ - the group spirit within Soma - but our personal efforts and achievements foster the peloton’s deeper transformations.

As a group, we have known each other for much longer than our current internet connection - it goes back beyond the physical. We are fast approaching a threshold which is critical for the work we are all doing internally - critical for this life. You can’t just create a group engaged in spirit development and not activate a deeper transformational process. That process has been activated and is now reaching the summit of watershed for the purpose of Soma in this life. How we negotiate this watershed is pivotal for our group’s purpose and our own purpose in this life.

The peloton is picking up speed - the inner impulse of transformation is bubbling and drawing closer to the surface. We are cycling past many on the road side who have ‘stood aside’ and given up the true fight for this life. They watch us as we speed by. We take the ‘point’ in turn - sharing the extra strain of shouldering the wind. Now it is time to awaken and invest the astral spirit of Soma with conscious vivification.

Imagine the Kundalini of Soma stirring and surging upwards. See the threshold like a summit on a long assent we have been climbing since we found each other. Look penetratingly with your astral eyes into the lower layers of Soma’s spirit and see what you can of its evolutionary surge. Thus merging your astral being with the astral being of our group’s purpose. Much shakti can be drawn down to assist our own threshold events through this. Use Soma as a common powerhouse to vitalise our own struggle and pending achievement.

There is one exercise that when done regularly, can assist this whole process. I will continue to seed the transformative energies as those seeds are passed to me, but we can each prepare ourselves and thus facilitate the advent of a task that we have come together in this life to enact. I am referring here to the Death Walk.

The Death Walk

You are on Death Row. the call comes through - you’re next. You stand up and walk slowly towards the door, knowing that behind that door, it all ends. How are you to walk?

Feel your double inside you, bent over and cramped within your tiny frame. Allow your double to unbend, feel it reaching up to its full height and power - feel its ownership of the situation - its rightful sovereignty. Walk forward deliberately, knowing this is your last walk, your last moments. This is your Death Walk.

Practice this walk whenever you can, until it becomes calm, natural and graceful.

But the best time to practice is when you have to break what you are doing to go to the toilet. Pissing and crapping are what we call inconvenient truths. Inconvenient because we want to get on with what we are doing, but instead we have to drop that and head of to the bathroom. That is how death also comes to us. So that is a perfect time to practice the Death Walk. There is nothing more truthful, interfering and mundane, than having to drop our activity, and head off to pinch a loaf ... or die.

Grasp the moment, acknowledge the call has come. Accept it - stand and walk with dignity and presence. Stop before the doorway, knowing that you will not come back through again. This is it.

Death in the astral means major change. That is what we are facing - what I have described above as the imminent threshold. The Death Walk is also our threshold walk. Nothing will be the same again. If we practice this walk, we prepare ourselves in the best way for a transformation that will launch us into a destiny selected long before we came to this moment, this life.

Thanks for the expansion, Michael.  :)  It gives me a better idea of what you are seeing, and when working in any type of group, I've found that having at least a vague idea of where that commonality of purpose lies is critical (at least for my own participation).  I realize many (most) have been in Soma far longer than I - my path was in a different direction during the days of TNF - so in essence I don't share the "history" of the group and the only way to "get it" is to ask.

As for Soma going into decline... I never felt that to be the case, even though I did feel that Ellen's initial post in the thread had merit, based on my own experiences at The Shaman's Rattle (Delphi) and at The Sorcerer's World.  When a group goes silent for long periods of time, it can mean many things, not all of them necessarily negative.  But the end result seems to be that some members will stop coming altogether in the absence of activity, so while I can appreciate the value of silence, I also feel that forums are dependent on discussion to keep their members interested and focused.  A double-edged sword there, of course.  Not anyone's responsbility to generate or maintain another's interest; but OTOH, because we're spread out all over the world, it isn't like we get together every Friday night for tea & crumpets to renew and expand our connection.  An amusing thought, actually - would be nice if that were the case.  :D



"You have to be immortal before you will know how to become immortal."
Quantum Shaman  | Quantum Shaman on Facebook

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk