Author Topic: Various Disguises and Scams  (Read 328 times)

Offline Nichi

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Various Disguises and Scams
« on: September 08, 2009, 05:18:44 AM »
Various Disguises and Scams

A bird lit in a meadow where a trap was set.
Grain had been put out on the ground,
and nearby a fowler had wrapped himself in grass
and pulled roses and red anemones over his head like a cap.

The bird had some notion that this clump of grass
was not all grass, but at first look,
he had no argument about what it might be.

He hopped a circuit around the strange heap
and asked,
"Who are you, out here in the wild?"

"I am a renunciate,
content to live like the grass.
After my neighbor's death, I closed my shop.
I gave up associating with every human being
that came along, and now I'm trying to be a friend
of the One. I saw that my jaw
would eventually be bound in the shroud,
so I figured it was best to use it less now.

You birds wear beautiful green robes
with gold embroidery, but at the end
you too will be wrapped in unsewn cloth."

All faces turn back into dirt.
The moist-dry, hot-cold parts
rejoin their kinfolk, and our spirits
receive a letter from the world
of pure intelligence. It says,

"So your five-day buddies left you!
Learn who your true friends are."

Some children, when they're playing with strangers,
get so hot and preoccupied with the game,
that they take off their shirts. Night comes,
and their clothes are gone, stolen.

It's impossible to play in the dark,
and now they're afraid to go home.

You've heard the line,
This present life is a play.

You've thrown off your clothes in the fun of living.
They floated away in the wind,
and now you're scared.

While it's still day, I've realized
that men are thieves, and that most of life
is wasted, half in looking for a lover,
and half in worrying over the plots
of our enemies. The former desiring
carries off our cloaks, and the latter
anxiety takes our caps.
Yet we remain
completely and obliviously absorbed
in our play. It's getting dark.

Death is near. Leave the game.
Saddle the horse of remorse
and catch up with the thief.

Get your clothes back. That confession-horse
is the speediest there is.

But keep it tied safely
when you're with the thief.

A certain man on this way to the village
has a ram that he leads along behind him.

A thief sneaks up and cuts the halter rope.
Finally the man notices and runs left and right
looking for the lost ram.
He sees the thief
beside a well, though he doesn't know
that it's the thief. The ram is elsewhere.
He goes to ask if he's seen a loose ram.

The thief is kneeling by the well crying.
"What's the matter?"
"My purse has fallen in.
If you can help me get it out, I'll give you
a fifth of everything in it. You could soon have
one-fifth of a hundred gold dinars
in your hand!"
The man thinks, "That's enough
to buy ten rams! One door is shut,
and God opens ten new doors."

He slips out of his clothes and climbs down
into the well, where there is nothing, of course,
and the thief carries away his clothes.

Oh, it takes a prudent man
to make it into the village!

When one loss causes a greedy panic,
then more losses are liable to come.

Imposters appear in many disguises.
Stay in your refuge with God,
and they won't deceive you.




-- Mathnawi VI: 435-477
Poetic version by Coleman Barks
"Feeling the Shoulder of the Lion,"
Threshold Books, 1991



Not here, not there, but everywhere - always right before your eyes.
~Hsin Hsin Ming

Offline Nichi

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Re: Various Disguises and Scams
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2009, 05:22:47 AM »
I don't often comment on poems posted, especially if it's a complaint. Usually, if I have a complaint, I won't post it.

This poem speaks to me in so many ways. I was nodding all the while through until the end, and the substance was so worthwhile I posted it, even though the last line left me empty.

"Refuge in God" ... what is it? It's certainly the main reason I'm not Christian, and never could be -- this idea that all one needs to do is "believe" and then take comfort. That has never been acceptable to me. Phrases come to mind, like "the opiate of the masses", this idea that everything is "all-right", so long as one believes. Come now, I say, far more Work is required than that. And who in the world would depend on the desert god to save them?
« Last Edit: September 08, 2009, 05:25:50 AM by Nichi »
Not here, not there, but everywhere - always right before your eyes.
~Hsin Hsin Ming

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Re: Various Disguises and Scams
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2009, 05:32:23 AM »
I was thinking on that per Michael's recent post in Restless Soma today, if you drop by and see it. He spoke of something similar about beliefs, and work, at least I think so, in the same vein.

I think definitely more work is involved. But Im careful blaming even the 'desert god,' because that is more interpretation of people, creating god. Technically, we could say rumi was speaking of the same god, but in a totally different manner, the Beloved. Not the punishing god of hellfire and brimstone.

Still though what is this God and what is the work involved? Where is the fine line of what 'we've' created as beliefs, and what is actual? That I think can only be answered by going 'within' and going in deep, really deep within us, in areas which are sometimes even dangerous to go, only because it involves such a psychological trip for us, to go beyond the boundaries we have set for us, our comfort zones, simply put.

Buddha was silent on the issue of God and my own belief is the reason he was, was he knew what people would do to the path he outlined if he spoke on the matter. Not that he didnt believe, that was far too foolish. But that if he spoke, how would people twist his words? What would they create - out of their ignorance? So he didnt, thats what I believe.
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

Offline Nichi

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Re: Various Disguises and Scams
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2009, 05:49:06 AM »
I haven't been over to RS today, but will have a look later.

The "desert god".... the Sufi's may indeed see him a little differently -- as you say, it's "the Beloved": but I submit that the Sufi's are onto something more universal.  I dare say that the Sufis' god is ultimately a different entity. (Though I know there would be much outrage and disagreement by the more scholarly Sufi's.)

This "desert god", or "spirit" -- whatever he is, he feels real to me, and he has his hooks into a large part of the world's population.  Look at the main similarity between Islam and Christianity: their mission of evangelism, to convert the whole world to their beliefs. And thus ... the whole world either drowns or becomes a desert. Bloodbaths and nuclear war and mayhem. This "desert god" is no friend to our species -- he is not the Beloved.  He seeks to turn the world into a desert, with no other spirits to challenge him.

Now you know my private little disease ... these religions are the enemy to humankind, and the ultimate goal is the destruction of humankind. Not even because it's efficient, or biologically expedient, but because Yahweh/Allah needs space .....

</paranoid ravings>
Not here, not there, but everywhere - always right before your eyes.
~Hsin Hsin Ming

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Re: Various Disguises and Scams
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2009, 06:13:54 AM »
I hear ya. But I still believe there is a two-way creation of gods. Yaweh I dont blame. No sense in blaming any god for what mankind did to him, and fed him.

Many have tried to 'steal' that god via Abraham's covenant, which is the tri-fold deal with christianity, islam, and judaism. I think the only thing that makes the god destructive is people, creating for themselves their religions in opposition of each other. It doesnt have to be this way, but people deep down 'want' the opposition (the ones who do), and feel that if the world simply converted to 'their religion' all would be well. That is stupid, and it is folly. This battle has gone on for hundreds of years, the same stupidity, and the only religions which do not proselytize, which do not seek to convert, are the ones which are non-agressive. Even the jews dont seek to convert. But they do seek to hold onto their god, I will say that.

I watched that movie Religiouses or whatever its called, by Bill Maher, and it showed a lot of fundamentalizm in religions. He showed many different views, but much ado of it of the fundamentalism i see more as a problem than religions, or even gods themselves. People could wise up and evolve if they wanted to, and 'see' that in truth, all religions to some degree are one, we're all striving for the same thing in some capacity, like we all want peace, we all would like maybe immortality (no one really wants to die), we all want to live on a globe of oneness and not separation. However, it doesnt help that these religions are antagonistic to each other, many of them, and esp the primary three when they're fundamental. i know it doesnt speak for all collectively, there are wise ones mixed in the loop in all of them. However, if someone feels the need to blow someone up at the Gaza strip and shit like that, something is wrong.

Im not sure if in my lifetime ill see the big three get it, and get along, and resolve their differences. I do not know. It would be nice but as they continue to struggle the way they do, I just hope they wont take us under in some big war. I dont want to live thru that, thats for damn sure. I can say tho, I still blame people and their ignorance more than the deity. People sometimes, believe what they want to believe and what suits them. you can select any religion and it reflects back to you. A christian can look in the bible and see good, or see reasons to blow someone up. The choice is theirs to see what they want to see.

"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

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Re: Various Disguises and Scams
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2009, 06:35:34 AM »
My sense is that yahweh/allah was not created -- but that surely all the energy fed into him strengthened him. That's the whole point of the "mission", in fact. Just my take..
Not here, not there, but everywhere - always right before your eyes.
~Hsin Hsin Ming

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Re: Various Disguises and Scams
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2009, 06:56:04 AM »
My sense is that yahweh/allah was not created -- but that surely all the energy fed into him strengthened him. That's the whole point of the "mission", in fact. Just my take..

Not created? Well, we have no evidence of Jews ever being slaves in Egypt, and when Moses and the people allegedly took the trek to their new home, 45 years in the desert, virtually no dead bodies and bones along the trail, and people would've had to have died on a 45 year long trek.

But they were in Babylon and they got some ideas from the Babylonian writings, such as the story of the flood, and the story of Genesis. How much was more inspired and created, and what is real? It is hard to say.

So I come to the conclusion, also with other evidence (that just being a fraction of it), Yaweh was created as a myth, however, he 'spread' via the middle east. Now, people may have encountered him, and seen power in the deity, that is very possible, and thats part of why they tried to hijack the deity for their own. It is something Ive thought on before. To claim him is to claim certain regions of the middle east. That is possible. He may have really hooked an actual Moses, and then an actual Muhammad in the fray. And there may have been a Jesus too. However, in truth, we cannot say for certain that these people existed. We cannot say Muhammad went to the dome of the rock and just, disappeared, stuff like that. Or jesus was lifted by angels. Or moses's body was fought over. But anyway, rambling about that, what if all of it was just folks who wrote things down for their own reasons, to be able to sway others into believing a certain way? All had to know religion and fearing a deity was a very powerful 'tool' and way to control people as well, a quick way to conformity. Get them to believe first in a rather wrathful deity, worship it, and tell some stories with supernatural twists involved so they would conform. Is that more possible than his actual existence?

I dont know. I dont deny a god but lets say, the attributes of this particular one I feel were more created via myths for ulterior purposes.
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

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Re: Various Disguises and Scams
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2009, 07:01:40 AM »
I agree with you that it's a lot of myth for ulterior purpose.
Not here, not there, but everywhere - always right before your eyes.
~Hsin Hsin Ming

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Re: Various Disguises and Scams
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2009, 07:20:57 AM »
Right. And definitely with Jesus when the church hijacked him from the new christians, and made it into the religion of Rome, it became something else. It was a small sect of folks being fed to lions for joy, virtually underground til Constantine. And then the dream with the cross, some say it was an ankh he saw, not the christian one. Either way, Ive wondered if its really so on his deathbed he really did renounce paganism or they just said he did. Then, there were other 'messiahs' such as Mithras who were up in the running for the new religion, and Jesus and christianity was picked. Then everyone knows now that much ado of Jesus was changed. The book was changed into a virgin birth, and then his birthday Dec 25th. Raising from the dead in three days. So, could it be there is another actual story of events which took place? But now we'll never know? Or do the gnostics have more of a truer interpretation?

So now as it stands it doesnt matter, what has happened is we have what - almost three billion folks who believe a certain way on the globe, or more, I dont know. And, its a boiling pot of conflict, which one day could potentially boil over due to myths. And ignoring the obvious which is, really, we're all one, interdependent on each other, and if we dont get over our own stupidity fast, and stop allowing old myths penetrate our common sense it can be our doom.

My own personal belief which I dont always air is that there is only One God with countless attributes, yet is also, a God of no attributes of all. The Great Void, the Great Nothing. Who, is beneath all of this shit, yet operates as a mirror. You look, and you see what you want to see, your own face. Can do that. You want to see a wrathful deity, that is what you'll get. You want to see a compassionate deity who loves all? That is what you'll get. And then, the one you project onto others, one of fear or one of love, the one you tell others who exists, the one you either try to convince others about, thats the one you'll deal with later on. You may spend your afterlife with the deity of your mind, with all the attributes you assigned that deity later on.

my two cents
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

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Re: Various Disguises and Scams
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2009, 09:39:43 AM »
"There is only God."

Deepak Chopra

 8)

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Re: Various Disguises and Scams
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2009, 09:55:25 AM »
"There is only God."

Deepak Chopra

 8)

And I was watching Gandhi last night and he was saying to the Hindus and Indians that we're all children of God too. Not much different sentiments. There is, and can be, oneness in multiplicity and lets face it, we cant know 'all' and everything unless we're uber enlightened, but we can know enough to say what god cant be, and thats a child on the playground of the planet actually wanting to create conflict.

However, people, can do this. My god is bigger than your god or hes mine and who has the bigger spiritual dick and so forth. It is so stupid. No one owns God at all. But many try to own by saying say, theyve got a handle on what is 'truth' yet many have what was told to them from someone else ringing in their ears, and like vicki eluded to, lacked doing the 'work' which requires, doing all the inner work, and purification, so one can actually get to the 'god within us.'
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

Ke-ke wan

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Re: Various Disguises and Scams
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2009, 09:55:36 AM »
and...

(Weird how my Twitters are discussing this same thing tonight eh?)

"Truth is higher than any man-made religion! and the only way to access IT is to surrender"
Eddie Kowalczyk

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Re: Various Disguises and Scams
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2009, 09:57:10 AM »
but we can know enough to say what god cant be



I do not believe there is anything that is not God,  so how could there be something that God can't be?   Even conflict,  drama etc,  is all God.


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Re: Various Disguises and Scams
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2009, 10:12:30 AM »
and...

(Weird how my Twitters are discussing this same thing tonight eh?)

"Truth is higher than any man-made religion! and the only way to access IT is to surrender"
Eddie Kowalczyk


That is good synchronicity timing. I was thinking today about some hindu scripture about wanting truth more than wanting air, or something like that. Basically, eventually you want that more than anything. And, you have to be willing to toss away all that you believe, even that which you hold dear, to be able to do it. Then, go seek the truth. Its the only way. And on surrender, that is right. Surrendering that which holds the beliefs and wants to cling to the comfort of them in the first place. Because the majority could be 'wrong.' And also, you have to look at a group say, based on followers. For example, looking at the masses believing in myths which have been changed and grafted in 'this and that' countless times, while some saints came forth, they did it cause they went 'beyond the myth.' They went further than that. They got past all of the belief systems and went further to the spirit. At least, the true saints, which actually walked among us.

So truth has to always be valued first and foremost. Its a dangerous business to take any man-made religion, and subscribe to it blindly. For example, not to bash but, christianity isnt big on questioning, but buddhism says to question and encourage it. If, a religion is strong enough, it should allow for questioning. Be open to it. If, however, it is encouraging a close-mindness of its followers, where is the freedom in that?
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

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Re: Various Disguises and Scams
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2009, 10:13:14 AM »


I do not believe there is anything that is not God,  so how could there be something that God can't be?   Even conflict,  drama etc,  is all God.



What about non-existent?
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

 

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