I don't know the ultimate answer here. I've always worked with Spirit ... and by that I could mean a multiplicity of them, my own double, guides, god-essences (which are spirits, aren't they?), or the whisperings of the wind and the trees.
But it's intriguing that we're speaking of this, because I've been wanting to share an excerpt from something I read recently, to see what folks here made of it. Essentially, the writer here is saying that if one hangs out with spirits, then that will be the substance of one's afterlife, and that one will come short of the "highest realization" (which for him, a Hindu, is God.) (Hang with spirits -- die with spirits, he says.)
From What Becomes of the Soul After Death by Sri Swami Sivananda
Spiritualism, Chpt 7
/...../A man is sitting in his room. He is thinking of a difficult problem. He is alone in the room. The room is closed. He beholds his ‘double’ which is like him. This comes out of him, goes to the table, takes a piece of paper and pencil in hand, solves his problem and writes the answer on the paper. This ‘double’ is the astral self of the man which can live independent of the gross physical body. Such instances are recorded in the Psychical Research Society of Europe and America. This clearly proves that there is a soul which is entirely distinct from the gross physical body.
After death the individual soul takes all his desires with it and it creates the objects of enjoyment by mere thinking. If it thinks of orange, the orange is there and it eats the orange. If it thinks of tea, tea is there and it drinks tea.
He who wants to drink wine in heaven and eat delicious fruits and to live with celestial damsels and move in celestial cars, goes to a plane of consciousness where he will project all these ideas and make his own heaven.
Modern spiritualism has given wonderful demonstrations regarding the existence of disembodied spirits who continue to live even after the dissolution of their gross physical bodies. This has opened the eyes of the rank-materialists of the West and the atheists.
Some good spirits possess the powers of fore-telling, clairvoyance and clairaudience. They have love and affection for their friends and relatives. They try to help them during their distress, misfortunes, dangers and calamities. They give a warning message to avert dangers.
The disembodied spirits remain earth-bound for some time after their death. They expect help from their relatives and friends. Prayers, Kirtan, Sraaddhas, charitable acts, good thoughts help the departed souls in getting release from the earth-bound conditions and rising higher and entering the world of Pitris in order to enjoy the fruits of their good deeds.
The spirits have no knowledge of the highest truth. They cannot help others in attaining Self-realisation. Some are foolish, deceitful and ignorant. These earth-bound spirits control the mediums and pretend to know everything regarding the planes beyond death. They speak falsehood. They put on the appearance of some other spirit and deceive the audience. The poor innocent mediums are not aware of the tricks played by their dishonest spirit-guides. The spiritualists waste their time, energy and money in the vain hope of obtaining the favour of those spirits and transcendental knowledge through them.
The last thoughts of the spiritualists will be thoughts of spirits only. They cannot have sublime thoughts of God. Hence they will enter the region of the spirits only. Communication with the spirits will mar their onward march to higher blissful regions and make them earth-bound. Therefore, give up the idle curiosity of talking to the dead on everything regarding the spirit-world. You will not gain anything tangible and substantial. You will disturb their peace.
No one should allow himself to become a medium. The mediums have lost the power of self-control. Their vital energy, life-force and intellectual powers are used by the spirits which control them. The mediums do not gain any higher divine knowledge. These spirits are not angels as the spiritualists claim. They are really earth-bound spirits.
The spirits do portrait-painting and typing. Spirits materialise in the seance. They melt away in a mist-like white substance and disappear. You can hear the noise of the pencil during automatic slate writing. You may feel a gentle shock while the spirit writes on the slate. The spirits may place their hands upon you and catch hold of your shirt, tie, etc.
You create your destiny, your character, your future through your thoughts and deeds. There is no end of your experiences here and hereafter. You will continue to live and come back and be born again on this earth. Try to attain perfection and reach that state where there is no more birth, no more death, and no more disease, sorrow, tribulation or suffering. Meditate on the eternal Atman, thy innermost Self. Do not identify yourself with this perishable body, a combination of the five elements. Realise the Self and be free. Through knowledge of the Imperishable obtain perfect peace, eternal bliss, everlasting joy and immortality. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I've been pondering the above. Sivananda is writing during the 1st half of the 20th century, when Spiritualism was having its heyday. (It fell into disrepute.) The ones I knew were always harping on "the highest", and had become a bit disenchanted with producing dead people for the broken-hearted. Long story short, it had become a bit of a "racket", and in seeking its survival, it really had to go in a different direction. So I understand his dismay, but I don't see how it is "impossible" that a spiritualist, or spiritist, could know God. The truth is that there is more to Spirit(s) than the disembodied departed.
At any rate, is this really an either/or scenario? one or the other -- spirit or God? I think Jahn's description leads us out of the contradiction...
... and meanwhile the old Raven can reveal a "secret".
Toltecs says "The Lord" to what most people refer to as "God". The Lord is also used in Christianity all you of course very well know. The crux is that The Lord does only recognize the energy of Love and the like energies. So if we would communicate directly with the Lord we have to have Love, Abundance, Forgiveness, Compassion and other energies in our message.
Spirit is actually another significant facet of God. But the difference is that Spirit does not restrict its communication to the above. Spirit is a middle wo/man in that respect. Spirit is therefore in one way easier to connect with. It recognize anger, despair, sorrow etc.
But to make it even more complex, neither the Lord or Spirit is equal to Nagual. And still, all there is, is Nagual. While Tonal is Nagual manifested.
. .
