Soma
Tools of the Path => Toltec [Public] => Topic started by: Firestarter on June 06, 2010, 02:43:10 AM
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Whats your take on the foreign installation? Is it a real thing?
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You mean like BP?
You bet, and it's set up in your lounge room. Owned by the Chinese, designed by the Germans, paid for by your own little soul.
(PS... try being original)
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You mean like BP?
You bet, and it's set up in your lounge room. Owned by the Chinese, designed by the Germans, paid for by your own little soul.
(PS... try being original)
BP? What do you mean?
Michael, I was seriously pondering the question, if there is a foreign installation or not.
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Michael, I was seriously pondering the question, if there is a foreign installation or not.
were you?
OK, I'll take you at your word, although my first answer was also serious.
Let me ask you then - are you asking, or is the foreign installation asking?
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were you?
OK, I'll take you at your word, although my first answer was also serious.
Let me ask you then - are you asking, or is the foreign installation asking?
Well I believe im asking. I know its big in CC circles about the foreign installation. I admit, im uncomfortable with the premise that at times my thoughts may not be my own, and there is some strange force out there, that wants to lead mankind astray, and interferes with our minds in various ways.
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From Active Side of Infinitity
"Every one of us human beings has two minds. One is totally ours, and it is like a faint voice that always brings us order, directness, purpose, The other mind is a foreign installation. It brings us conflict, self-assertion, doubts, hopelessness: it's ourselves as the me-me center of the world.
Let's put the topic of our two minds aside and go back to the idea of preparing your album of memorable events. Such an album is an exercise in discipline and impartiality. Consider this album to be an act of war. As such, it has all the meaning in the world.
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We are not naturally petty and contradictory. Our pettiness and contradictions are, rather, the result of a transcendental conflict that afflicts every one of us, but of which only sorcerers are painfully and hopelessly aware: the conflict of our two minds! One is our true mind, the product of all our life experiences, the one that rarely speaks because it has been defeated and relegated to obscurity. The other, the mind we use daily for everything we do, is a foreign installation.
To resolve the conflict of the two minds is a matter of intending it. Sorcerers beckon intent by voicing the word intent loud and clear. Intent is a force that exists in the universe. When sorcerers beckon intent, it comes to them and sets up the path for attainment, which means that sorcerers always accomplish what they set out to do."
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Anyway, is it real? Or just a dream of Carlos's?
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The two minds remind me of the problem of the conscious vs subconscious. I do feel at times that my thoughts are not mine, but I experience it as something surfacing from some hidden place. It appears more "genuine" then my normal thoughts, and I wonder if my normal thoughts are really "mine" or just reactions to the external world.
I've been reading a lot of Jung lately, so my thoughts on the subject could be biased.
I guess the "foreign installation" is as real as you make it.
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Hi Rudi, yes I agree it can be what you make of it, and I do think - if it exists - that it would be connected to the sub self. Ive been on another forum that talks about it quite a lot and have been pondering the issue, cause ive always been uncomfortable with the thought of something 'foreign,' but then there are times where I have random thoughts that dont seem 'me' and dont seem right, and this other part of me - the real me I hope- answers back accordingly, or will squish the 'bad' thought altogether. But it is an interesting concept. I dont know if I can fully accept it yet, but I still am fascinated by peoples takes on it.
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Yes,
there is a foreign installation and it is called humanity. It started in Eden and was the reason we had to leave. Since then humans are prey to their own shortcoming in terms of "pettiness and contradictions" delusion, illusion, misperception and stubborness.
To get rid of the foreign installation, the Flyers or the Parasite, one have to work diligently with a knife called stalking and inventory.
There is a few short cuts too to short circuit the foreign circle. But that is another history and a technique only availble for seers.
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Yes,
there is a foreign installation and it is called humanity. It started in Eden and was the reason we had to leave. Since then humans are prey to their own shortcoming in terms of "pettiness and contradictions" delusion, illusion, misperception and stubborness.
To get rid of the foreign installation, the Flyers or the Parasite, one have to work diligently with a knife called stalking and inventory.
There is a few short cuts too to short circuit the foreign circle. But that is another history and a technique only availble for seers.
Thats interesting you mentioned Eden Jamir, A nagual mentioned Eden today, when I asked how long the FI has been around. Then you mention Eden, and it really makes me wonder. I mean, Ive always felt like there was some sort of 'fall' of man, in some way. Just pinpointing 'when' would be difficult. Neanderthal, or was there a great Atlantis at one time, but we perished and went back to the jungle? Really the possibilities are endless. But anyway, he too blamed the FI for the reason we had to leave eden, which makes me ask this, and Im still awaiting his answer too, but is the FI the devil?
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but then there are times where I have random thoughts that dont seem 'me' and dont seem right, and this other part of me - the real me I hope- answers back accordingly, or will squish the 'bad' thought altogether.
Both the "good" and "bad" thought are you. All thoughts are you. Random thoughts are just that; random. They flit across the screen of the mind like leaves blowing in the breeze. They don't have to have meaning, and they don't mean you are "bad", unless you give them meaning and call yourself bad by giving these thoughts life. The "real" you is also that one that you give life to. Often we want to keep the good one and not the bad one. By defining ourselves as such, we set ourselves up. To me this seems that you are questing into the issue of duality - good bad, me not-me. Duality is simply a description of the world. It is real, as a description, and not real, as it's simply a description.
DJ's 'foreign installation', to me, was a way for DJ to explain to Carlos what was going on in his mind. It is 'foreign' in the sense that it does come from 'outside' of us, having being 'installed' by culture, society and humanities collective ego in the process of 'growing up'. To me, that is quite "real".
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But anyway, he too blamed the FI for the reason we had to leave eden, which makes me ask this, and Im still awaiting his answer too, but is the FI the devil?
There are quite a number of interpretations of "the fall of man", each more interesting than the other, and any one of them, or none of them, possibly holding some element of 'truth' somewhere.
My two favourites are the end of a 'golden age' - the Atlantis scenario being one such Golden Age, and the other interpretation being the fall into consciousness, or development of a separate conscious ego, The expulsion theory being a physical development, and the second a psychological one. The foreign installation could fit into either one, as could the 'devil'. Again, I see the FI as a description, as is everything in this world, and that then makes it 'real', as what we call 'reality' and 'real' is a description of what we experience.
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When a multi-national sets up in your town, you buy the same goods that everyone else in the world buys.
When that extends to TV, you watch the same programs that everyone else in the world watches.
You wear the same clothes, eat the same foods, like the same things and dislike the same things, think and feel the same way - you believe yourself to be unique, but in fact you are simply copying.
You are pawn of a foreign entity - living, breathing and thinking what that entity feeds you. You flatter yourself on your uniqueness, but actually you are a puppet of another's will.
That is how the foreign instillation works. You believe your emotions are unique, while in fact if you only stepped outside yourself for a moment, you would see they are depressingly exactly the same as every human being ... who is asleep.
When you read a question on one forum and reproduce almost exactly word for word on another forum, you are doing the same - you are living a fashion. In this case a fashion of thought. Like wanting to wear Nike joggers, 'because those people are wearing them, I want to wear them also'. It's the cool idea going round.
The foreign instillation demands you toe the line and seek to replicate, thinking you are actually involved in some serious inquiry.
That is why I said "try being original".
Now if they start talking about pizza on another forum, and it becomes a 'hit' over there, and the original question is asked by someone who calls himself a 'nagual' - adding real gravitas - will you pop in here and ask exactly the same question?
I know it's hard to be original, but at least you could turn the idea around in your mind and come at it from a different angle.
Of course we would like to try on the latest fashion, but a little gesture against the most obvious infection of the foreign instillation's command is worthwhile ... like me calling it instillation instead of installation.
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So Michael, are you picking on me? So its being discussed elsewhere and I brought the topic here, cause I wanted to see what soma folks would say, so that means, I was lead by the FI, what the hey?
You know what ive been up to lately? Ive been working on my swearing, and Ive learned that swearing doesnt come from us, but then thinking of it today, it may come from the FI. Strange thing is, I rarely swear when I talk. I think Ive sworn more online than I ever spoke. For the most part, I speak clean. And when my BF swears I get on him about it, and I tell him its because its not clean for the soul. Strangely my work lately has led me to that point.
I feel like - and I liked your answer I did - but you're giving me little stabs cause you dont like me going elsewhere. Could that be the FI too, cause sometimes you can be a possessive man you know? lol Love you anyway, even though you picked on me about the question.
Btw I have only basic cable, and since having it installed Ive turned it on mabye two times. I dont watch it. I prefer to read, or sleep and work on my dreaming skills. I go to bed earlier than most. Anyway all I can think of at the moment, have to head out soon from work.
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and that then makes it 'real', as what we call 'reality' and 'real' is a description of what we experience.
Definitely - it is real all right.
But the practice is to identify when we are experiencing a mood that is not inherent to our innate nature. An experience that is grafted onto us, and which we identify as ourself without question. Much the same way we adopt our parent's response characteristics, thinking they are our own.
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An experience that is grafted onto us, and which we identify as ourself without question.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KL76edqCKc&feature=related
(Not that fighting the nazis wasn't a worthy cause.)
Frank Capra's "Why We Fight" World War II Propaganda Series (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBUKRAE2O9c)
(Lots of grafting afoot here.)
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Yes,
there is a foreign installation and it is called humanity. It started in Eden and was the reason we had to leave. Since then humans are prey to their own shortcoming in terms of "pettiness and contradictions" delusion, illusion, misperception and stubborness.
Probably it started before Eden, even. :-\
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Thats interesting you mentioned Eden Jamir, A nagual mentioned Eden today, when I asked how long the FI has been around. Then you mention Eden, and it really makes me wonder. I mean, Ive always felt like there was some sort of 'fall' of man, in some way. Just pinpointing 'when' would be difficult. Neanderthal, or was there a great Atlantis at one time, but we perished and went back to the jungle? Really the possibilities are endless. But anyway, he too blamed the FI for the reason we had to leave eden, which makes me ask this, and Im still awaiting his answer too, but is the FI the devil?
No, he is not. The Devil is a symbol for "the bad seducing guy" but the Foreign Installation is a living energy, a huge entity, living and feeding on our "not in the flow shortcomings".
Lucifer is a part of the decline of human beings but he is not the Parasite per se.
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Probably it started before Eden, even. :-\
No it didn't start before Eden. That is not only my Raven statement, that is statements from others, as Don Miguel and Kris.
The decline started when the Soul incarnation of experiencing individuality became little ego instead of whole individual.
But please remember the Sleeping Buddha. This experience of the Parasite and little ego are not in vain. To be pragmatic it gives our Soul a way to grow. It get the Hunter a prey etc.
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The FI has raised it head again today around me. It does so every day.
I can say, that no matter what I say, no matter what people know intellectually about this 'thing', its hold on the minds and emotions of humanity is unshakable.
I know of no one, aside from myself, who has succeeded in escaping the grip of the FI. There may be people in here, or elsewhere that I know, who have escaped, but I don't for sure about it.
That will give you some idea of what we are up against. Its tentacles permeate every aspect of our lives. But worse than that, despite we may even know intellectually about this trap, in fact, we love the FI like nothing else. We love it more than anything else in our world or life. We cling to it and defend it to our death.
The FI is who we are - it is our identity.
I won't even speak of it's manifestation, because everyone will get upset and defend those traits as essentially human and personal. I give up. All I can do is enjoy the world as I pass through.
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I won't even speak of it's manifestation, because everyone will get upset and defend those traits as essentially human and personal. I give up. All I can do is enjoy the world as I pass through.
No, please, go on. Ive really been probing this one as of late, trying to do some astral work to 'see' for myself. I know in the end that's all I can do, but I would like your take on it.
I agree it does seem to be rooted in the identity.
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Ive really been probing this one as of late, trying to do some astral work to 'see' for myself. I know in the end that's all I can do
It won't work. No amount of probing will free you from what has been so long installed. It is too clever for that.
When it's shipping out the goods, there is no way you can stop it because you are completely consumed at that point.
Where you have to tackle it is where it has set up its constructs. But recognising those isn't going to help, because they are far too clever.
The only way to deal with it is to counter with repetitive and specific practice. Yes there are some that are very clever practices, but on the whole, it is the combined force of years of practice, until your emotional and mental being become too distasteful for any foreign investment.
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It won't work. No amount of probing will free you from what has been so long installed. It is too clever for that.
When it's shipping out the goods, there is no way you can stop it because you are completely consumed at that point.
Where you have to tackle it is where it has set up its constructs. But recognising those isn't going to help, because they are far too clever.
The only way to deal with it is to counter with repetitive and specific practice. Yes there are some that are very clever practices, but on the whole, it is the combined force of years of practice, until your emotional and mental being become too distasteful for any foreign investment.
In what way can you become 'distasteful?' I know having a quiet mind helps and working on the ID, but what other ways?
Also, is is the jungian shadow similar to the FI, or at least the 'flyer?'
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Also, is is the jungian shadow similar to the FI, or at least the 'flyer?'
What's the point of lining up endless spooks from every culture and time, and hoping they are all the same? Where does that get us?
What way...? Start by acknowledging that boredom is a withdrawal symptom - the best approach is always cold turkey.
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What's the point of lining up endless spooks from every culture and time, and hoping they are all the same? Where does that get us?
What way...? Start by acknowledging that boredom is a withdrawal symptom - the best approach is always cold turkey.
You know I think I am becoming distasteful because Ive been experiencing a lot of boredom. I think the FI doesn't like people dealing with solitude. Ive been finding solitude nearly unbearable, so Im relieved when theres OT at work to do, I wake up and go in right away, so I can work and make some money during my 'spare time.'
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In what way can you become 'distasteful?' I know having a quiet mind helps and working on the ID, but what other ways?
Also, is is the jungian shadow similar to the FI, or at least the 'flyer?'
Since there's been a discussion going on over at The Sorcerer's World about the FI, thought I might toss in a couple of thoughts. Lots of folks seem to think the FI is some "alien" construct, but it really isn't. It's us - the programs and belief systems with which we've been uploaded as a SPECIES for so long that they have become part of our "identity". Here's a silly example. As a child, my grandmother always said, "Della's favorite color is blue." In reality, blue was HER favorite color, but I accepted for years as a child that my favorite color was blue. Only when I shook off the FI and started thinking for myself did I realize that green is actually my favorite color. *shrugs* No big deal? Or is it? Just that one silly example caused me to start digging into other things I believed about myself, only to discover that 99% of what I "believed" had nothing to do with "Della" and everything to do with the consensus at large - i.e., I was a result of the programs & beliefs which had been put onto me by the consensus. The humans NEED their agreements, and so whenever I hear someone say something like, "You ARE a registered voter, right?" Or "You DO believe in God, of course..." what I am really hearing is the voice of the foreign installation, speaking in tongues,, but always yammering, yammering, yammnering.
Now, we could stand around whining that we are victims of the consensus, but the only way to rid oneself of the FI (that is, the only way I've discovered) is through a state of perpetual self-awareness and self-questioning. When I feel myself getting "worked up" over something, for example, I stop and ask why. Where are these feelings coming from? Most times, they are extensions of the consensus - i.e., I've been told/programmed to believe this or that "matters", but in the big picture, it's all just folly. And this extends to the big picture as well as all those little pictures. Religion, politics, all of it.
When a warrior truly *sees* that and begins to LIVE in that position of the assemblage point - where we truly see/recognize the presence and the PURPOSE of the FI - it becomes much more difficult for the FI to maintain its grip on us, and eventually it lets go (briefly at first, always to return) because when it cannot control you, it really has no use for you, and in fact, it may even go so far as to set you up as its "enemy", in which case that's a whole OTHER can o' worms.
Not long ago I did a workshop at my house which focused on recognizing the FI and some techniques for diminishing its effects in our lives. Unfortunately, what most of the participants discovered (and this is always going to be the case) is that they didn't really *want* to be free of it, because basically the FI is the teat of happy complacency or grandiose self-importance into which the majority of folks enjoy being attached. *shrugs* And Michael is right - they will defend to the death their right to go right on being dependent, attached, etc., while at the same time trying to say they are free of it altogether. That's how it works. And the only way to get around it is by constant vigilence. It won't make you popular. It won't make you happy, even. But when a warrior is ruthless, it will eventually make her free.
And, of course, when one is free is precisely when the FI will stage its next attack, trying to either gather up the "fallen," or discredit/destroy those who have seen it for what it is. This is part of the "war" a warrior fights. And from what I've observed so far, it is never-ending.
Just my 2 cents worth.
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The only way to deal with it is to counter with repetitive and specific practice. Yes there are some that are very clever practices, but on the whole, it is the combined force of years of practice, until your emotional and mental being become too distasteful for any foreign investment.
Right.
There is where the "Point of No Mercy" or the point of no pity as CC called it fits in. One can shake loose the grip of the FI, it recognize such vibration and do not want to deal with those that have passed beyond that point.
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But when a warrior is ruthless, it will eventually make her free.
That is the only cure I am afraid, yes.
The humanity and its little ego installation operates at a rather low frequency in universal terms and any higher frequency is not "tasteful" to thrive on for the Parasite and cannot feed it. Therefore higher vibrations become sour for the Parasite and therefore it is a chance to stay undisturbed from its influence.
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higher frequency is not "tasteful" to thrive on for the Parasite and cannot feed it. Therefore higher vibrations become sour for the Parasite and therefore it is a chance to stay undisturbed from its influence.
I was going to ask about this. Thanks Jamir! :-*
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That is the only cure I am afraid, yes.
The humanity and its little ego installation operates at a rather low frequency in universal terms and any higher frequency is not "tasteful" to thrive on for the Parasite and cannot feed it. Therefore higher vibrations become sour for the Parasite and therefore it is a chance to stay undisturbed from its influence.
yes ive noticed overtime, working on getting to a higher vibration, that I feel I am less 'controled' or at the mercy of desires. I watch null tv, I can go for months without it. I am steering away from movies which have a lot of violence and action. Im swearing less. Just undoing various things, trying to clear myself totally out of lower astral gunk. Im finding the more I do this, the freer I become and the more 'me' I am. I am still connected with all, but I am not a sheeple, doing what everyone else is doing.
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The humans NEED their agreements
So here lies a man
who sought to be free
His motto in life
was "I don't agree!"
[my epitaph - let Julie know if I demise]
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So here lies a man
who sought to be free
His motto in life
was "I don't agree!"
[my epitaph - let Julie know if I demise]
I like that!
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I know of no one, aside from myself, who has succeeded in escaping the grip of the FI. There may be people in here, or elsewhere that I know, who have escaped, but I don't for sure about it.
There is a very revealing reason for this. It is almost impossible to know if a person has released themselves from the FI unless you actually live with them. You can't easily tell from a distance or a casual acquaintance.
To the trained eye you can see the embedded constructs in place, so you can make a good guess when it is obvious the FI is alive and well. But as with romance, people are able to put on a good show when connecting to others via the internet or for short periods.
It is amazing how all is revealed once you spend substantial time with another. That is the real test.
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There is a very revealing reason for this. It is almost impossible to know if a person has released themselves from the FI unless you actually live with them. You can't easily tell from a distance or a casual acquaintance.
To the trained eye you can see the embedded constructs in place, so you can make a good guess when it is obvious the FI is alive and well. But as with romance, people are able to put on a good show when connecting to others via the internet or for short periods.
It is amazing how all is revealed once you spend substantial time with another. That is the real test.
That makes sense.
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"higher frequency is not "tasteful" to thrive on for the Parasite and cannot feed it. Therefore higher vibrations become sour for the Parasite and therefore it is a chance to stay undisturbed from its influence."
I was going to ask about this. Thanks Jamir! :-*
One more thing about this higher frequency that repels the foreign installation grip - Love.
The FI is not aligned to unconditional love, that is not a frequency of its own, unconditional love belongs to the "holy being" the whole man and the Shaman. So when we stop to judge people (and blame the FI instead ;D, if we want to put a blame ) then we can rise to the area of love.'
Heyaa Dreamers!
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"higher frequency is not "tasteful" to thrive on for the Parasite and cannot feed it. Therefore higher vibrations become sour for the Parasite and therefore it is a chance to stay undisturbed from its influence."
One more thing about this higher frequency that repels the foreign installation grip - Love.
The FI is not aligned to unconditional love, that is not a frequency of its own, unconditional love belongs to the "holy being" the whole man and the Shaman. So when we stop to judge people (and blame the FI instead ;D, if we want to put a blame ) then we can rise to the area of love.'
Heyaa Dreamers!
Thats good news :)
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Just bumping if anyone interested but we have a good thread on he FI and michael has given some great input and so has nemo, who visits more regularly now.
http://restlesssoma.com.au/restlesssoma/index.php?topic=3103.0