Topic: Who's Offended

[Taimi]

Ah, Taimi, look at many people who believe in certain gods, or follow certain religions, which aren't necessarily the healthiest. Got Muslims who believe if they go on a suicide bomb mission, they'll be rewarded in heaven and bestowed with many virgins and be heros when they die. We've got millions upon millions on the planet who believe Jesus will come back and save us from destruction. Why would I care about those issues even? I watch the news on CNN, see religion and racism, and all this shit coming up again, and I care because they're people just like me. I care because I'd hate to see a WWIII.

I think this caring won't save the world. It only consumes my energy when getting emotional about it. That's why i don't watch tv much  I prefer to walk in the woods, feel the wind on my skin, watch the birdies and so on  Yes, there are many people who from my point of view are 'wrong'. But i don't care, it's their problem. Or actually they don't see it as a problem - why would i?
War - hm can't quite imagine this. Guess i'm too much in the moment. Or i see only this what is happening around me, there is no war here. And if there was, i'd see it as a chanse to become aware of death.
Actually i have thought about it if this unconcernedness is 'right'. But what can i do if i don't care?

[Taimi]

BTW Niamh
Thank yoo too. Think I got some refreshing boost from your fierceness   

[niamhspark]

Well, you can't make yourself care. Sure, caring wont save the world, but still makes me sad to see people killing each other, not learning from the past. Not finding better ways to solve their problems. Innocent kids get bombed, over human stupidity, and hard not for me to care. I know, however, I'm powerless to stop the events. I can only deal with the microcosim that I am, and not fall into the trappings and illusions of the world. And I've known this for quite some time. What else can one do when many in the world are hell bent on destroying themselves in upteen million different ways?

[niamhspark]

BTW Niamh
Thank yoo too. Think I got some refreshing boost from your fierceness   

You're welcome! And I've enjoyed this conversation. Like I said, good to see you questioning, because that is a good thing!

[Jahn]

Some say they were born to those parents because of past karma. They may have been an abusive person in the past. This isn't based on reality. This is taking the concept of karma, and trying to mold/shape it into the person's experiences.

So Karma may be a part of reality. Tibetan munks read the natal chart of Michael Palin (BBC) and said that in his previous life he was an Elephant. After that Palin went for an interview with Dalai Lama. I am afraid that to define reality is difficult.

In cases like offender/offendee, I see it more like this. We may have something inside us which gravitates, pulls, an offender to us.  

Right, and if we do not have a petty tyrant we better get one! It lies a challenge in this. A sound challenge. How we handle a difficult situation. We want to be in control and then someone stumble in and ruin our circles. To hit back, to take necessary action does not necessary mean that we are offended. To be in our center though requires many years of training.

[Jahn]

Well, you can't make yourself care. Sure, caring wont save the world, but still makes me sad to see people killing each other, not learning from the past. Not finding better ways to solve their problems. Innocent kids get bombed, over human stupidity, and hard not for me to care. I know, however, I'm powerless to stop the events. I can only deal with the microcosim that I am, and not fall into the trappings and illusions of the world. And I've known this for quite some time. What else can one do when many in the world are hell bent on destroying themselves in upteen million different ways?

Yes we are powerless to the Dream of the planet. And we have to brush our own staircase first. If we hate, then it should be Ok for anyone else to hate. So some think it wise to erase our hate. There we go.

The Dream of the planet, the mass conscious is much more dense than we are. Therefore we experience a "conflict" with that Dream. In fact it is a great opportunity to have a physical body during this time in mans history. The opportunities for growth are the best ever! In almost any field that you choose to work you will find great probabilities.

[Michael]

Or i see only this what is happening around me, there is no war here. And if there was, i'd see it as a chanse to become aware of death.
Actually i have thought about it if this unconcernedness is 'right'. But what can i do if i don't care?

well well, so it pops up. my god t, your country is redolent with war death destruction and pain - i'm surprised people in those areas live so casually. these have permeated the etheric level so deeply, i'm surprised you and Juhani can even live there - Juhani at least is aware of this, and is a reason i have been asking him to dig deeper than this level to the older strata - and you are in complete oblivion.

partly due to your youth - it is a good warrior the old youth - but in your case, the signs are all around you - the caves, the man who visits the 'grave' - these are the outer visible of the vast beneath, and you, a sensitive have a lot of awareness to catch up on. i'm not saying what you see is wrong, but that there is so much more right in front of you - calling to you - and you are not wanting to see it. maybe there is a karmic reason.

[Jahn]

The other has been rather like a catalyst to show me myself. i can do nothing about an-other, but i can do everything about myself.
If I can get beyond my body's reaction, I then have a choice in how to respond. And the choices are many!

Yes to respond and not re-act.
And all I can change is my self. And when I change so will my outer world.

[Jahn]

Don Juan can be wrong in some cases folks.

I doubt that, seriously. At least not wrong in the sense that we usually mean because that would be rather contradictive. At the end of his teachings Don Juan had completed his transformation to a man of knowledge. By that he aligned to the non-personal line of Toltec Teachers. Always connected through time and space.

Ruthless knowingness and endless compassion cannot be wrong. Could it?

[Taimi]

Oblivion, probably yes. I haven't seen war. So i don't understand what it is that you think i should see.
PS i still haven't quite figured out what this word 'karma' means.

well well, so it pops up. my god t, your country is redolent with war death destruction and pain - i'm surprised people in those areas live so casually. these have permeated the etheric level so deeply, i'm surprised you and Juhani can even live there - Juhani at least is aware of this, and is a reason i have been asking him to dig deeper than this level to the older strata - and you are in complete oblivion.

partly due to your youth - it is a good warrior the old youth - but in your case, the signs are all around you - the caves, the man who visits the 'grave' - these are the outer visible of the vast beneath, and you, a sensitive have a lot of awareness to catch up on. i'm not saying what you see is wrong, but that there is so much more right in front of you - calling to you - and you are not wanting to see it. maybe there is a karmic reason.

[niamhspark]

I doubt that, seriously. At least not wrong in the sense that we usually mean because that would be rather contradictive. At the end of his teachings Don Juan had completed his transformation to a man of knowledge. By that he aligned to the non-personal line of Toltec Teachers. Always connected through time and space.

Ruthless knowingness and endless compassion cannot be wrong. Could it?

No, I dont think that's wrong at all. I suppose from his perspective, all who are offended are in the wrong. He really believed it. He did walk the walk.

[Taimi]

well well, so it pops up. my god t, your country is redolent with war death destruction and pain - i'm surprised people in those areas live so casually. these have permeated the etheric level so deeply, i'm surprised you and Juhani can even live there - Juhani at least is aware of this, and is a reason i have been asking him to dig deeper than this level to the older strata - and you are in complete oblivion.

I don't get it. Should i see and feel this killing and pain and everything? What for? I know a lot of people whose grandmothers and grandfathers have been to some concentration camps and heard storys but that doesn't evoke much emotions in me. It's more like just interesting storys. My grandmother wasn't there (haven't seen my grandfathers and the other grandmother is dead), they got a warning from someone and had the chance to escape and hide in the forest. She told about that once how they were hiding there in fear, living in a inn made of spruce branches and the bombs were flying over their heads.  Her woice started to tremble when she spoke about it. Well, i couldn't understand that, it was just an interesting story for me and i have been feeling a bit sorry for not being able to hear more of these storys.

PS - just took this book from the library - If This is a Man by Primo Levi

[Jahn]

No, I dont think that's wrong at all. I suppose from his perspective, all who are offended are in the wrong. He really believed it. He did walk the walk.

Don Juans perspective was nothing of his own. He didn't believe in the same sense that you and I use the word. He acted and his manifestation became pages in CC:s books.

We are in the "wrong" if we trap yourself. We are in the "wrong" if our perception gets clouded. That is what ruthless knowingness is all about. There is just one person in the whole Universe - and that is I. All that matters is me. But not little ego me.

What Don Juan knew was that being offended is just simply self-importance and since ther is nothing useful with self-importance it (the whole offence thing) has to go down the drain together with the rest of our garbage.

The other side of this is to not give away power. There is no room for self-importance but there is also no way that we shall let us be robbed on power. So how do we respond to a attack? We respond from our center of power and that center takes no offense, it don't stir up the emotions. Our center solves the problem, not making it worse.

[Tiamat]

Kabbalists teach that the other persons are like mirrors to us.
This means that if we get offended for a thing another says or does, means that we have a "problem" within ourselves. We have it from the inside and we exteriorize THANKS to another person.
So we should look for good our reactions and try to work on them.
Giving the fault to one another is a mere excuse created from ego.
The first re- action is always to get offended cos we learnt to react at this sensation being offended.
REACTION is the repeting of an action that if perpetrated long time become the classic dog  trying to bite its tail.

[erik]

Well said, Tiamat!