Author Topic: Joseph Campbell  (Read 933 times)

Offline Nichi

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Re: Joseph Campbell
« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2015, 01:21:38 PM »
With the sorts of cultural activities which pique my interest -- mythology, iconography, story-telling, and folklore -- I find Joseph Campbell very evocative.

"We cannot predict the next mythology which is coming, for mythology is not ideology. It is not generated by the brain, but from those deep creative centers below the human psyche. But we can predict what it had better be. The first function of mythology is to open the mind to the mystery of the universe––to the mystery of one's self. Unless the panorama of the world, and the experience of your own presence in it, opens back into that mystery zone from which the energies come that inform the body and shape the universe, you don't have a mythological structure."

Joseph Campbell, interviewed by Joan Marler in the Yoga Journal, November / December 1987 (Campbell passed away prior to publication, on October 30, 1987)
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Offline Nichi

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Re: Joseph Campbell
« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2015, 01:40:24 AM »
“In the Orient, the gods do not stand as ultimate terms, ultimate ends, substantial beings, to be sought and regarded in and for themselves. They are more like metaphors, to serve as guides, pointing beyond themselves and leading one to an experience of one’s own identity with a mystery that transcends them. I have found that the approach through Freud and Jung greatly helps to make this point clear to students brought up in the mythology of Yahweh—a jealous god, who would hold men to himself and who turned mankind away from the Tree of Immortality, instead of leading us to it. Such a god in the Orient would be regarded as a deluding idol. In fact, heaven itself and our desire for its joys are regarded there as the last barrier, the last obstacle to release, to be transcended.”

Joseph Campbell, "Comparative Mythology as an Introduction to Cross-cultural Studies," in The Mythic Dimension


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runningstream

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Re: Joseph Campbell
« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2015, 06:09:52 AM »
i am sure this guy believes what he said and it makes perfect sense to him

through his intellect

the reality is a complete contradiction of what he says there


runningstream

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Re: Joseph Campbell
« Reply #33 on: September 01, 2015, 06:12:38 AM »
17And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18"I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it. 19"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."…

Offline Nichi

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Re: Joseph Campbell
« Reply #34 on: September 07, 2015, 05:28:15 AM »
"Creative artists ... are mankind's wakeners to recollection: summoners of our outward mind to conscious contact with ourselves, not as participants in this or that morsel of history, but as spirit, in the consciousness of being. Their task, therefore, is to communicate directly from one inward world to another, in such a way that an actual shock of experience will have been rendered: not a mere statement for the information or persuasion of a brain, but an effective communication across the void of space and time from one center of consciousness to another."

Joseph Campbell, The Masks of God, Volume IV: Creative Mythology


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Offline Nichi

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Re: Joseph Campbell
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2016, 08:15:50 AM »
"When I bought my computer––anyone who has tried to work a computer knows what my experience was––I thought, well, I wonder what god it is that is there? Being somewhat an expert on gods, I lived with this computer a couple of months, and then I recognized the god. It was Yahweh of the Old Testament: a lot of rules and no mercy! But then, when you get to know the rules and your fingers obey them, it is fabulous what the thing can do!

"That is the way it is with the rules in art. You have to learn to know them, and if it is a proper, up-to-date local art, the rules will have something to do with the life of people here and now, not a big smoochy general thing about life, but how it is here and now, what our problems and our mysteries are, here and now. You have to know your own day. You have to know your own relation to your own day, and then forget it! Let the thing build into you, the way my knowledge of my computer is built into me now. And then each of you can sing."

Joseph Campbell, The Mythic Dimension: "Creativity"
(courtesy of the Joseph Campbell Foundation)
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Offline Michael

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Re: Joseph Campbell
« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2016, 07:59:54 PM »
 :)

Offline Nick

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Re: Joseph Campbell
« Reply #37 on: August 06, 2017, 03:55:03 AM »
I thought that this was an interesting take on 'demons'.

"A deity is the personification of a spiritual power, and deities who are not recognized become demonic and are really dangerous. One has been out of communication: their messages have not been heard, or if heard, not heeded. And when they do break through, in the end, there is literally hell to pay."

Joseph Campbell, Thou Art That: Transforming Religious Metaphor


So was thinking about Joseph Campbell today, as I work on getting into sculpting altar statues, and doing other mythologically based art. Hadn't read this thread since this post here, which interestingly was July 28th of 2015, and now its only a few days after july 28th of 2017. That said, an altar statue a FB friend of mine might be interested in is base off a demon of the Goetia. And I thought, would I want to make that statue, not sure I want to connect with that energy as deeply as I do when I'm making art. But it did occur to me to view it a representation of energy repressed in the Shadow, as such connecting with it might be a good idea, might help me process some things. And her choice of demon is representative, in some ways, of some things I would benefit from confronting. Seeing this quote kind of adds to the idea that maybe its not such a bad idea..... still the karmic question of how is she intending to make use of such a statue...... but in general she seems to have pretty positive views about life....... 
"As long as we confuse the myriad forms of the divine lila with reality, without perceiving the unity of Brahman underlying all these forms, we are under the spell of maya..."
 -Fritjof Capra, The Tao of Physics: An Exploration of the Parallels between Modern Physics and Eastern Mysticism

Offline Michael

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Re: Joseph Campbell
« Reply #38 on: August 06, 2017, 11:51:03 AM »
Whenever we identify strongly with a particular aspect of ourselves, we create an equally strong and opposite aspect in our shadow. If you see yourself as a person of integrity, and hold to that view with determination and desire, then you naturally create a shadow self of dishonest and corrupted character. If you refuse to acknowledge that aspect in yourself, then it will seep into your life insidiously and sabotage your aspirations. That is the shadow.

Deities are cumulative personalities of communities of people, thus the process of the shadow applies to groups as much as individuals. But due to the extent of power associated with a community's obsession about it own identity, the power in a negative deity can be more than an individual is capable of handling.

If you want my advice, leave these deities alone unless you truly understand what you are doing and why. The problem for us, is that we have enough difficulties already, and don't need to invite elements into our aura that can cause a tail spin of misfortune. If however, you know precisely why a particular deity is associated with an element in your own personal shadow, then manifesting it in some way can be beneficial.

The difficulty is that, outside of India, the dual aspects of deities are not emphasised. Thus you don't receive cultural assistance in processing the shadow elements through to the light in ways that can be beneficial. In this case, you would probably have to delve into Crowley's energetic views to decipher the archetypical codes, and that is not a place I would advise anyone to venture.

If it were me, I'd give the commission a swerve.

Offline Nick

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Re: Joseph Campbell
« Reply #39 on: August 21, 2017, 09:53:24 AM »
Just noticed your reply here, in many ways much what I was thinking. Fortunately I haven't actually committed to making any for others yet. I was just getting an idea of what the people on my friends list might be interested in, and doing some initial advertising.

I have read some Crowley, of and on, but I'm not really a fan. Couldn't say exactly why right now, just any time I read him the its brief interest that doesn't stick. But a lot of his ideas that I've come across weren't wrong. Though, like I said, I have very basic familiarity with his system.   

Now Chaos Magicians, who are to some degree influenced by Crowley, more so Austin Osman Spare, their approach I like. Though still only have rudimentary knowledge of. And have often considered creating a refined.... perhaps more holistic approach to Magic/k, that would borrow from the deconstructionist approach of Chaos Magic. They to had an interest in delving into the Shadow side, as it seems many Shamanic traditions do.

Could you elaborate in greater detail on your dislike (if that is the right word? cautioning against?) of Crowley's energetic views?

In western culture people could probably benefit from a system that does place an emphasis on the Shadow side of deities. I would be surprise if the collective shadow of western culture isn't at least a tad responsible for stuff like, oh, Trump's election.

I was considering symbolic, mythological ways in which people might process the shadow side... one such approach was inspired by a dream Jen had recently. Her dream was inspired by an idea I was sharing with her. In the dream a magician was wrestling a bear. The bear seemed to represent a shadow aspect of the magician. Its something I'm not particularly fond of, taking elements of nature and saying they are the part of us that is "bad", which we aren't saying here, but if not careful, people interpret it that way. But it occurred to me, that one could do something similar to the dual aspects of deities, with nature. Make sure its spelled out that the symbols are representations of ways people perceive nature, not of nature as it is. Then you could have dual aspects of the bear, dual aspects of the bat, dual aspects of fish, tiger, tree, etc. Simultaneously confronting the aversion, denial, dislike of inner and outer nature, that leads us to pollute both.

In my subconscious for instance I do have a symbol of a bat that often comes up in reference to a tendency I've had toward timidity and insecurity that results in me "dwelling in the darkness" even when amongst others. It also leads to a false echolocation, a hearing the ego reflected back. In which I "hear" the contents of my own mind in the world around me. Sometimes like a slight paranoia. Yet, even when dwelling into the negative felt-sense of this bat symbol, even then I feel a positive side in there. That becomes an embrace of the consciousness expanding, auditory intelligence strengthening value of venturing forth in the darkness of night. Also not fearing the darkness.

Then you could easily represent higher concepts and energy with say visionary art portrayals of aspects of the natural world.
"As long as we confuse the myriad forms of the divine lila with reality, without perceiving the unity of Brahman underlying all these forms, we are under the spell of maya..."
 -Fritjof Capra, The Tao of Physics: An Exploration of the Parallels between Modern Physics and Eastern Mysticism

Offline Michael

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Re: Joseph Campbell
« Reply #40 on: August 21, 2017, 11:01:37 AM »
As a general rule, I am against discussions about Crowley, because I know where they lead, and the energy they introduce - an energy I don't want in Soma. Like most western people interested in a spiritual path, I investigated western magic - Golden Dawn, The Golden Bough, Alchemy, Masons etc - there was quite a lot happening in 18 and 19th centuries, with a lot of violence intermixed by church and societal reactions. They coalesced in a particular small country in Europe (whose name I forget - I think it no longer exists under that name anyway) where the rulers welcomed them in as a kind of refugee. My understanding is that the consequence for that country was quite beneficial, although I have little proof of that.

In general, the stream that followed the Golden Dawn and Crowley got mired in a king of suprasensible landscape that was a spiritual dead-end, which is why I adopt Gurdjieff's attitude when Crowley visited him - acknowledged him but studiously ignoring him until he went away. I do not advise anyone to study his works. The dealing with the shadow side of human desire in Europe has had a very bad name and the constant wars are a consequence of this poor handling. Europeans by nature seem to have an excess of self-righteousness and puritanical poopiness, to say the least - just look at their cathedrals.

But anyone who does want to study up on western magic, I suggest The White Goddess, all the writings of Dion Fortune, Rudolf Steiner (esp his material on the Rosicrucians), Carl Jung, as well as books on Avalon and Merlin (they have a good vibe). There are others, but the principle is to identify the colour of the energy that streams from them.

Releasing the pressure from the shadow does not mean indulging in it. It has to be handled with care. The important thing is to acknowledge it - not to be so self-satisfied with your positive or negative opinions. "Humility is a great thing, Arjuna, much greater than archery." [The Mahabharata]

Offline Nick

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Re: Joseph Campbell
« Reply #41 on: August 22, 2017, 01:59:40 AM »
You wouldn't recommend studying Crowley, what about those horror writer's who's ideas have been  inspired by Crowley, the Golden Dawn, and other related groups and peoples? My wife loves horror, and I've gradually tried to find an interest in the subject. Despite her aspirations of being a horror writer, she currently doesn't believe in her ability. I've considered doing a study of the subject, and writing a horror story or integrating some horror into a story, and seeing if Jen will work on it with me. Would you also recommend against exploring the ideas of horror writers who've been inspired by Crowley and related people?

"As long as we confuse the myriad forms of the divine lila with reality, without perceiving the unity of Brahman underlying all these forms, we are under the spell of maya..."
 -Fritjof Capra, The Tao of Physics: An Exploration of the Parallels between Modern Physics and Eastern Mysticism

Offline Michael

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Re: Joseph Campbell
« Reply #42 on: August 22, 2017, 07:42:28 AM »
I don't have any problem with horror writings, wherever they get them from - it's not my genre, but I know dramatisations have to find material that works.

Offline Firestarter

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Re: Joseph Campbell
« Reply #43 on: August 22, 2017, 09:59:03 AM »
Now Michael I agree per discussions keeping it out of here. But would you agree its still good to know the history of Golden Dawn and Crowleys works? Esp if you encounter one who has a question on it. Knowledge is power right?
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

Offline Nichi

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Re: Joseph Campbell
« Reply #44 on: August 22, 2017, 11:46:45 AM »
You wouldn't recommend studying Crowley, what about those horror writer's who's ideas have been  inspired by Crowley, the Golden Dawn, and other related groups and peoples? My wife loves horror, and I've gradually tried to find an interest in the subject. Despite her aspirations of being a horror writer, she currently doesn't believe in her ability. I've considered doing a study of the subject, and writing a horror story or integrating some horror into a story, and seeing if Jen will work on it with me. Would you also recommend against exploring the ideas of horror writers who've been inspired by Crowley and related people?

Those ideas allegedly based on Crowley and the Golden Dawn (from which C separated fairly early on, so they are almost irrelevant to discussions about him) are usually pretty askew. He is a recurring idea in British whodunnits, I've noticed. The real Crowley was an egomaniac, and as a professor of mine used to say, his poetry was awful. He had a dismally low view of women, and experimented along the ceremonial lines of dominating the critters from the lower astral. He tends to appeal to young men searching for "power", and not in the Toltec sense of the word. I did study favorably his take on the Tarot, but after that, his work has a very depressing vibe.

Given that your spouse is prone to depression, I definitely would not recommend her studying him. As a matter of fact, I had 2 friends who ended up in psych hospital for long periods of time after following C's motifs. And I know of a 3rd. Michael has a good policy there of not getting involved with him here in this place.
Not here, not there, but everywhere - always right before your eyes.
~Hsin Hsin Ming

 

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