Topic: Seeing

[nichi]

Perhaps what I mean is good manners.
At some point, we take responsibility for the areas in which we find ourselves, seeing-wise. Prior to that, all circuits are open, perhaps, and we have little focus.

I remember in my wild youth doing mescaline -- the experience of which in the early 70's might have been something different than it is now. (I "hear" that these drugs are now all watered down.) At any rate, my friends were seeing beautiful colors, streaks and flashes, and having sensations of god. I wanted to see those things, but I didn't. I thought at the time that there was something amiss with my chemistry. 

Then I became hyper-aware of one friend in the room, who was reading the newspaper at the rise of dawn. I saw her nervous system, her bloodstream, I became her respiration. I felt how utterly depressed she was. It was a gashing pain.
I didn't have the tools yet, at age 16 or 17, to meet these perceptions with compassion, so the things-seen were wasted on me. I ended up interpreting the experience as, "Oh my god, this is all there is -- we are twitching nerve-ends and that is all." It took years to take it all to a higher level.
But most of all, I look back on the thing as an intrusion upon her, even if it wasn't deliberate. If she had been aware of the merger which was taking place, I feel now she would have been well within her rights to say, "get the flower away from me, you boundary-less idiot."

Good manners -- that is the ticket, Som!     

[somnium]

That is an awesome experience! I have had some mesculine cacti growing, and plan to do some sometime. As I have read, which means nothing to me, is that peotye is strongest, followed by the flaming torch, and peruvian torch cacti. I imagine that 'the tonal of our times', has led to greedy watering down of the 'commercial' product. lol. Though I find that the 'trip' attained from power plants, is subject to your intent, unless your intent is directed or controlled by what others say. This is why, for me, it is important to not be attached to the fellow man in this way. If someone thinks they will not attain a trip, as I have seen, they will not. I suppose this is why shamans will allow the spirit to guide them.

I find manners are also a matter of impecibility. To doubt your manners is to doubt your intent in a way. It is, I think, to doubt your 'way'. I think if a warrior attains a vision, or a state of awareness, then it is a gift to be stalked repeatedly. If we see something, in the moment, then that was shown for us to see for a reason, we had the power present to see this.

I see that if we constantly doubt our impecibity, our manners, or our intent, etc etc etc, then we project this doubt outwards, and so then all we can observe manifest, are our doubts.   

[nichi]

I agree that Intent guides a great deal, though I will point out that my Intent was to be having the beautiful hallucinations and god-experiences everyone else was.
And you're right about the manners being part of impeccability. I was a kid, heheh, I knew nothing.

Want to hear something, though? When years of other experiences weighed into my mind, I finally ended up interpreting that I was seeing god, after all.

Back then, I did peyote as well --- I found it more light-hearted than the mescaline. Of course, did the LSD too, like a true member of my generation. I became a bit psychotic on the lsd. Interestingly, in a last fling with substances about 10 years ago, I did lsd again, and I'm here to tell you -- it was nothing compared to 36 years ago. When I did lsd 36 yrs ago, I was in a corner of the room, in a fetal position, with someone telling me, "if you're going to commit suicide, please tell me, so I can take full advantage of your body before you do."  That brought me to, a bit, lol.

But we digress.

[daphne]

But we digress.

Not really.. awesome interaction here! I am sitting breathless on the edge of my chair!   

[somnium]

I agree that Intent guides a great deal

Yes, unfortunately!

This is how I see it when someone says 'I have never been high from hash', or whatever. They are letting their past experiences, or other opinions dictate their moment, and so they allow their intent to guide itself, with no, or little awareness to the fact that absolutely anything can, and will, happen, and is in their control to know it, or to observe it. The plant itself, as I see it, is used as a tool, or an excuse, to allow our awareness to shift, but can only move us if we allow it to, the plant becomes, eventually, a placebo. I suppose it could be said as, the objects we view only have the power we give them.

"if you're going to commit suicide, please tell me, so I can take full advantage of your body before you do."

oh no! jeesh..

[nichi]

Interesting. I remember back in the day, the mythology was that it took a few times of smoking marijuana before it took effect.

Then again, I remember a friend sitting at the table, saying, "I'm not stoned, are you stoned? No, I'm definitely not stoned.. How about you, you stoned? Wow, I'm definitely not stoned. No, no, are you stoned? What did that waitress say? I'm just not stoned!! No, no, not stoned! Is that a policeman at the door?"

 

[somnium]

Interesting. I remember back in the day, the mythology was that it took a few times of smoking marijuana before it took effect.

Then again, I remember a friend sitting at the table, saying, "I'm not stoned, are you stoned? No, I'm definitely not stoned.. How about you, you stoned? Wow, I'm definitely not stoned. No, no, are you stoned? What did that waitress say? I'm just not stoned!! No, no, not stoned! Is that a policeman at the door?"

 

hehehe!
Yup! Also the mythology of "if ya smoke a few, they lose the effect", or, "marijuanna kills the brain", etc etc, and all are true if we choose them to be. Kinda silly really..

[Jennifer-]

Interesting. I remember back in the day, the mythology was that it took a few times of smoking marijuana before it took effect.

Then again, I remember a friend sitting at the table, saying, "I'm not stoned, are you stoned? No, I'm definitely not stoned.. How about you, you stoned? Wow, I'm definitely not stoned. No, no, are you stoned? What did that waitress say? I'm just not stoned!! No, no, not stoned! Is that a policeman at the door?"

 

LMAO!

[Nick]

It's like this, Ian. I receive a vision, or a snatch of one. Now, do I take that image and move to the next opening spirit brings, or, do I analyze and reason the image into the ground -- even talking myself out of having received the image to start with?

No, no of course not. Yet one can reason without obsessing. What you describe of reasoning into the ground is an obsessive tendency of a people taught that mental knowledge is the only knowledge.

What I do comes from many angles. I practice the shotgun method you describe, trusting the first thought that comes, various forms of free-association, automatism/surrealism, as well as various questioning techniques and reasoning techniques.

There's confusion and misunderstanding here, but I'm experiencing that at sub-conscious, non-verbal level, and can't quite articulate it yet. I'll have to be reading your writing over time to put my finger on it. But I will point out, with affection, that you are analyzing and reasoning, and heading in the other direction from the nonhierarchical kind of perceiving I was advocating. 

Yes, your theory of time-compression... perhaps that is the alternate reality you can use to get at this seeing.
On the other hand, it isn't a "mandate" that we all see!
(Or is it?)

When you do please let me know it would be greatly appreciated. I must admit though I think maybe you misunderstand me because I don't understand me.

There is something I learned about once though never full understood, yet it is the type of perfection of reasoning that I seek...the little I get of the concept, is that it is a kind of Pure Reason that once developed kind of, sort of bridges the First and Second Attention...sort of making the Second Attention...ahhhh  more apparent to the first....LOL now I'm lost. Yet, I doubt there is little that is hierarchical about it.

[Nick]

Interesting thread about seeing but I can't understand (my mental understanding) how you end up with the concept "compressing time".

It is right that seeing is on a higher frequency than the mental body and therefore has to be filtered through the bodies of tonal to become "understandable". But as I know it "compressing time" is something else. It is about performing a number of actions faster than what was possible before.

The actions can be performed faster because our perception and awareness is smoother than before and then the mental mind also opreates at a higher speed.

I'm probably using the words wrong, I do this a lot lately.

[nichi]

There is something I learned about once though never full understood, yet it is the type of perfection of reasoning that I seek...the little I get of the concept, is that it is a kind of Pure Reason that once developed kind of, sort of bridges the First and Second Attention...sort of making the Second Attention...ahhhh  more apparent to the first....LOL now I'm lost. Yet, I doubt there is little that is hierarchical about it.

Maybe over time, I'll come to understand this more.
"Pure Reason" -- what is that? Hume?
Epistemologically, who's your man?
(Don't ask me the same... I don't have one, hehe, except perhaps DJ. I left off with Husserl when I was pouring into that sort of thing. Makes sense when you think about it -- I believe Castaneda considered himself a phenomenologist)

[somnium]

I'm probably using the words wrong, I do this a lot lately.

Here are some DJM quotes regarding time.

"Warriors compress time; even an instant counts.
In a battle for your life a second is an eternity;
an eternity that may decide the outcome.
Warriors aim at succeeding,
therefore they compress time.
Warriors don’t waste an instant. "

"Warriors face the oncoming time. Normally we face the time as if it recedes from us. Only warriors can change that and face time as it advances on them"

"When a warrior talks about time, they are not referring to something which is measured by the movement of a clock. Time is the essence of attention; the Eagle's emanations are made out of time; and properly speaking, when one enters into any aspect of the other self, one is becoming acquainted with time."

[Nick]

As I understand it in words, the mind has both linear and nonlinear thought processes. A way of speaking to your self in words, or instantanious 'bursts', or impulses, like instant ideas. I find it becomes almost like awareness of will, of your lines of will, and how they touch what is around.  When a warrior learns this 'way of thinking' his life becomes dramatically longer, a life of 100 years, can become equivalent to thousands of years.

Also, by observing something, or someone, with increased attention, you can actually preceive them slowing down, and speeding up, just as you can preceive them turning around, etc etc etc. With attention focused strongly on someone walking, you become aware of their every movement, slowed down, and you can anticipate them. It is a form of stalking seemingly done with the eyes, within the moment. Watching a bird fly, and anticipating its movements is a good practice for this I find.

 

I'm super impressed somnium. 

[Nick]

Maybe over time, I'll come to understand this more.
"Pure Reason" -- what is that? Hume?
Epistemologically, who's your man?
(Don't ask me the same... I don't have one, hehe, except perhaps DJ. I left off with Husserl when I was pouring into that sort of thing. Makes sense when you think about it -- I believe Castaneda considered himself a phenomenologist)

Actually... well I might have to blush a little...

I don't really have one, but if I had to pick someone who has inspired me...LOL don't laugh! Babarajajuju a.k.a. Baba! From the TNF. Back in the old days of the form I was in awe of the guy's skillz.

As far as epistemologically I don't have one either, though I guess Socrates was pretty cool.

[somnium]

I'm super impressed somnium.