Topic: Ghosts, Entities, Allies

[niamhspark]

You make some good points, but still I can not stop questioning.

Me neither. It's to keep my sanity intact, to do this. I see something, I can't simply take it at face value. I want to probe further, and peel back the layers. I don't see why this would make one stuck. Thanks Ian.

[niamhspark]

But, the mental body is the first body of form that the essences of the Dreamer come into. Thoughts are in the mental body, plum to the depth of a thought, and that thought connects to your Dreamer and to everything else. How is theory and mental construct separate from experience from this perspective? The theory is only a construct, but it breaks down into the reality when we fallow it back to its fundamental base in reality. How is experimentation with ones life separate from this?  Seems to me we should want to work on all angles. Why explore experience of one aspect of being, but not another, when all is one.

Agreed. I'd think the mental, emotional bodies must be in harmony, not ignored or suppressed, for their to be growth. It's another problem I have with 'mind' being the root cause for all the ills of the being. It's about using mind well, not to abandon it completely. Or like reason, why the hell would we abandon such a thing, and when did reason become unspiritual, for that matter? Just some examples.

[daphne]

I think it's a dual construct in some form and doesn't sound very Tao to me.

Duality comes out of our own minds, as does tao. Actually.. all our thoughts are constructs of our own mind in some way or other. We're the ones that give it it's "duality" and also decide what that duality means; we give duality its value and it's measure. Beyond duality is really just not falling into the duality trap. Things are what they are. What is, is.
The metaphor of "raising" is rather like climbing the mountain that it alludes to. It's a different view from a height than from the same level. Doesn't make the view better or worse - just different. We give it the "better than" ourself.
It's helpful to look at why.

[tommy2]

How does the tao come from mind.  Tao is not duality and the mind is.

Elephants cannot lay chicken eggs, right?

2

[erik]

But, the mental body is the first body of form that the essences of the Dreamer come into.

Is it?
Then how can mental lie and go into self-deception mode so easily?
Emotional body never lies.
Feeling never lies and cannot be faked.

[Michael]

dear me ... two pities

this is esp to niamh, but perhaps everyone on this thread should note.

Pity you don't understand Kris's life journey better, then you may know what he is talking about.

Pity you can't read his energy, and ony read his words.

[Nick]

Is it?
Then how can mental lie and go into self-deception mode so easily?
Emotional body never lies.
Feeling never lies and cannot be faked.

the parasite.

[Nick]

Is it?
Then how can mental lie and go into self-deception mode so easily?
Emotional body never lies.
Feeling never lies and cannot be faked.

Thought about it quite a bit today but no sufficient answer yet. Still though I'm not sure how the ability to lie could possibly change its position as the first body of form.
Which if I remember correctly is an idea I first got from Kris. I do think that the parasite and various programs are the most probable culprits for why it is so easy. I don't see the capacity to lie as any way indicative of anything other than in some way serving the function that body is meant to serve.


Back to the main purpose of this thread though.

I spent 10 years thinking I was ’spiritually evolved’ but had, in reality, stagnated.

I found this most interesting as it does reflect the tendency toward self-deception that I bet we all go through.

[Nick]

Me neither. It's to keep my sanity intact, to do this. I see something, I can't simply take it at face value. I want to probe further, and peel back the layers. I don't see why this would make one stuck. Thanks Ian.

There is a tendacy toward self-deception that one can slip into and the tendancy to live from the head. Which is probably what most of the whoey is about. I shouldn't call it whoey cause the trap is very real, but to not use the mind to its full potential seems a waist to me. Problem is not many are taught, learn, or are will to make the effort to learn how to use it properly. There is pondering, analytical meditation, active imagining and more. It can be beneficial to slow the mind or stop it temporarily, which is what most people on this type of forum discuss. And, it can also be beneficial to speed it up and make it do acrobatics. Then there is the path of questioning everything that leads to an emptiness of mind. And, then there is solid and central reasoning, the possition of doubtlessness, that was mentioned in another thread.

Often as I understand it proper mental work involves a combination of the mental and emotional bodies, or mental and feeling. And, the deeper we go the more of our total being is put into use. Most important is that it is active or deliberate mentation.
But, the center of our beingness, for self-presence, is not in the mind, but firmly in the body. This does not stop us from using our heads. 

[Nick]

It's another problem I have with 'mind' being the root cause for all the ills of the being. It's about using mind well, not to abandon it completely. Or like reason, why the hell would we abandon such a thing, and when did reason become unspiritual, for that matter? Just some examples.

True I don't think I've heard anyone say we should abandon it all together though. There is a certain balance needed, but some seem to skew that balance a little a bit. Maybe it is just personal preference.
Michael is right though about Kris or anyone for that matter, the energy behind the words is were the truth is.

[niamhspark]

True I don't think I've heard anyone say we should abandon it all together though. There is a certain balance needed, but some seem to skew that balance a little a bit. Maybe it is just personal preference.
Michael is right though about Kris or anyone for that matter, the energy behind the words is were the truth is.

I understand. I don't see the energy behind Kris's words as bad and never did. I do have a problem with the judgement on the 'messed up' ones being 'most.' I don't expect perfection from everyone. But I suppose I'll hold him to a higher measure because he's a teacher, and put himself into that position, or been assigned it per a higher calling, more appropriately said. What about spirit guides and the like? People's guardians? Or the animal allies - are they messed up? Are my two tigers messed up? Nah ah. That's where I raise an eyebrow.

And course, for the strict CC'ers, what about the ally from plants and so forth? They're spirits, what about them? Are they messed up? Anyways, examples why the 'most' bothers me. And maybe he didn't mean them, but this needs to be differentiated. "Flyers," or "parasitic entities" and left it at that. Mother in law thoughtforms, LOL Though mine was cool, just giving examples

[erik]

He stared at me, smiling, and said, "The best thing to do with inorganic beings is what you do: deny their existence, but visit with them regularly and maintain that you are dreaming; and that in dreaming anything is possible. This way you don't commit yourself."

I felt strangely guilty, although I could not figure out why. I felt compelled to ask, "What are you referring to, don Juan?"

"To your visits with the inorganic beings," he replied dryly.

"Are you kidding? What visits?"

"I didn't want to discuss this, but I think it's time I tell you that the nagging voice you heard, reminding you to fix your dreaming attention on the items of your dreams, was the voice of an inorganic being."

I thought don Juan was completely irrational. I became so irritated that I even yelled at him.

Another barrier of denial 
But the body knew, it always does.

[tangerine dream]

How does the tao come from mind.  Tao is not duality and the mind is.

Elephants cannot lay chicken eggs, right?

2

LOL
Tommy, good one.

I had completely missed this thread, thanks Juhani.

Interesting because we were discussing this at another place and this convo between CC and dJM came to mind.  I am copying and pasting it, thanks.
 
 

[tangerine dream]

You know the general agreement on copying and pasting from Soma. I hope you do follow it.

Juhani,

I think there is  no harm in copying a DJ quote from here is there?

[tangerine dream]

Hey Juhani,


I love you!