Topic: Death as Advisor

[goggle-eyed dandelion]

Have you thought about the video clips filmed from the warheads of these high-precision weapons slamming into various targets? From the targeting cameras of attack aircraft showing how 500 lb bomb detonates in the midst of a crowd?

It is all the same.
Air is full of such information - beheadings, blowing to pieces, school shootings, etc.
That's what sells - main news stories.


first of all, yes i have thought of this.  but still, there are more humane ways of taking someones head off.  this is a sad truth that i learned the other day. 

and yes, these videos of beheadings are on DVD's on video store shelves in Iraq are the TOP seller.  (did you know that?)

i am not buying any of it.  but it is still happening.  whether it sells or not.  this is not the question.  the question is, what is one to do?

You know, from the perspective of the person on the other side, the difference might be not that considerable after all.

Like one military chap from Pentagon put it  (after being asked about helping Saddam to produce chemical weapons and use them): 'What's the difference from the perspective of the dead - was it bullet or a gas?'

I'm not being specifically anti-American here, it is just one of the good examples.
There are dozens and dozens more in the history of war.
Endless number of examples.
Yet we live with it.
There is no way over and around it.
I found my way after going through all of it - meditating and sensing and studying what war means.
In its full brutality.
Getting a grasp of what this unlimited violence means.
After that it was not a problem any more.
The way is always directly through the thick of it.

[daphne]

first of all, yes i have thought of this.  but still, there are more humane ways of taking someones head off.  this is a sad truth that i learned the other day. 

A more humane way to taking off someone's head? Head's still gone. 

the question is, what is one to do?

About what?

[daphne]

There is no way over and around it.
I found my way after going through all of it - meditating and sensing what war means.
Getting a grasp of what this unlimited violence means.
After that it was not a problem any more.
The way is always directly through the thick of it.

Yes.

[journey]

You know, from the perspective of the person on the other side, the difference might be not that considerable after all.

Like one military chap from Pentagon put it  (after being asked about helping Saddam to produce chemical weapons and use them): 'What's the difference from the perspective of the dead - was it bullet or a gas?'

I suppose that is one way to look at it.  The difference from the point of view from the living though would be the combatant and the innocent.  my view is subjective since i am part of the living.. 

[goggle-eyed dandelion]

These are hard things to grasp.
One thing that might facilitate under-standing and coming to terms with it, is meditating on one's own death.
If you want, I can look it up and post it here.

[journey]

These are hard things to grasp.
One thing that might facilitate under-standing and coming to terms with it, is meditating on one's own death.
If you want, I can look it up and post it here.

That'll work

[goggle-eyed dandelion]

I'll post meditation later (I'm at work now).

Take care, man!

[journey]

ok.  (and thank you)   

[goggle-eyed dandelion]

Tibetan Buddhist meditation on death.

Purpose: to overcome the attachment to worldly activities

Preparation: relax, pacify your mind

Contemplation: We think 'I shall definitely die. There is no way to prevent my body from finally decaying. Day by day, moment by moment, my life is slipping away. I have no idea when I shall die. The time of death is completely uncertain. Many young people die before their parents, some die the moment they are born - there is no certainty in this world. Furthermore, there are so many causes of untimely death. The lives of many strong and healthy people are destroyed by accidents. There is no guarantee that I shall not die today.'

Meditation: After contemplating these points we mentally repeat over and over again: 'I may die today, I may die today', and contentrate on the feeling it evokes. Eventually we shall come to conclusion 'Since I shall soon have to depart from this world, there is no sense in my becoming attached to worldly enjoyments. Instead, I will devote my whole life to practice of Dharma.' We then meditate on this conclusion for as long as we can.

Meditation break: During the meditation break we should try to practice Dharma without laziness. Realizing that worldly pleasures are deceptive and that they distract us from using our life in a meaningful way, we should abandon attachment to them. In this way we can eliminate the main obstacle to pure Dharma practice.

...
Well, that's the 'official' thing.
You can modify it so as to concentrate on the first part - the feeling evoked by realisation that death can come at any moment and take anyone you know - including yourself.
Or if you find any other part useful - use it.

[boots]

Tibetan Buddhist meditation on death.

Purpose: to overcome the attachment to worldly activities

Preparation: relax, pacify your mind

Contemplation: We think 'I shall definitely die. There is no way to prevent my body from finally decaying. Day by day, moment by moment, my life is slipping away. I have no idea when I shall die. The time of death is completely uncertain. Many young people die before their parents, some die the moment they are born - there is no certainty in this world. Furthermore, there are so many causes of untimely death. The lives of many strong and healthy people are destroyed by accidents. There is no guarantee that I shall not die today.'

Meditation: After contemplating these points we mentally repeat over and over again: 'I may die today, I may die today', and contentrate on the feeling it evokes. Eventually we shall come to conclusion 'Since I shall soon have to depart from this world, there is no sense in my becoming attached to worldly enjoyments. Instead, I will devote my whole life to practice of Dharma.' We then meditate on this conclusion for as long as we can.

Meditation break: During the meditation break we should try to practice Dharma without laziness. Realizing that worldly pleasures are deceptive and that they distract us from using our life in a meaningful way, we should abandon attachment to them. In this way we can eliminate the main obstacle to pure Dharma practice.

...
Well, that's the 'official' thing.
You can modify it so as to concentrate on the first part - the feeling evoked by realisation that death can come at any moment and take anyone you know - including yourself.
Or if you find any other part useful - use it.

Just become suicidal , its far easier and the pay off is great

[ellen]

Just become suicidal , its far easier and the pay off is great

It's depressing and whilst I respect the Tibetan buddhists, I could never really groove with the death theme, their brand. Best lucid dreaming techniques around. Dalai Lama I respect. But Zen I find more peace with. Tibetan is very concerned with the moment of death, the "Toltec of Buddhism." Mayahana more the metaphysical. Zen is concerned with it, but more practical and simple. Satori. That's it. And be ordinary. Let it go.

Lotus sutra is better. I look at a Lotus, that's zen. That's it. Death meditations - can't always be talking to that particular advisor.

[goggle-eyed dandelion]

Just become suicidal , its far easier and the pay off is great

It frequently happens among those who cannot accept a fact that human life is guided  by something much larger than wishes, desires and beliefs of little ego. I haven't seen suicidal Tibetan Buddhists. On the contrary, they seem to smile and laugh form the bottom of their hearts much more frequently than 'civilised westerners'. Full realisation and acceptance of the cosmic truth about death makes one free. The meditation merely reflects that truth. If it is not accepted - fear will dominate every moment of existence.

[daphne]

It is interesting that meditation on death is closly linked with one's belief's also - otherwise there would be no need to mediate on death. Perhaps that accounts for the smiling Tibetan Buddhists? It kind of forms an alignment. Buddhist thought is on the impermanance of earthly life (simplified for of course there is more to it). Relief always brings smiles.

Having been through both meditations on death and suicidal tendencies, I have found that death is as mysterious to me as life. The value of death as an advisor to me is that I don't know it, and it is there to remind me of that.

Human life may be "guided by more than the wishes, desires, and beliefs of the little ego" - then again it may be not. It is the unknowable for that very reason. "Returning" from meditation, from dreaming, the mind takes over... that which is experienced can never really be expressed -though not through lack of trying. I suppose thats really why 'life' is the experience of all experiences..

One day we'll know.. until then, death is a good advisor to have - the ultimate unknowable.

[goggle-eyed dandelion]

You use the word 'unknowable', but is it the thing you mean?
Death is rather 'unknown' (though experienced many times previously) as is our true nature and the core purpose of our human life.

You wrote yourself:

But if the man sloughs off his tiredness, and lives his fate though, he can then be called a man of knowledge, if only for the brief moment when he succeeds in fighting off his last, invincible enemy. That moment of clarity, power, and knowledge is enough.

Then you'll know.

[daphne]

You use the word 'unknowable', but is it the thing you mean?
Death is rather 'unknown' (though experienced many times previously) as is our true nature and the core purpose of our human life.

You wrote yourself:

Then you'll know.

Yes, you have a point there.
Unknowable vs Unknown. I am not sure about that.. sometimes I feel that to the 'me' I know it would be unknowable. To the 'me' that I don't know, it would be an unknown.

Death expresses itself in many different ways - intellectually, and experientially, I can understand having 'died' to many things - but Death, with a capital D is something I have not experienced in it's entirety - though there were times on my path when I have wondered whether the life I am living is not a life in one bardo or another.. and Death a moment that spans infinity, much as life does - for my moment is always the moment and Death implies (to me) the end of a never ending moment. To the "me" that is currently in awareness, that moment is unknowable.