Soma
Tools of the Path => Toltec [Public] => Topic started by: Builder on January 18, 2011, 07:15:37 AM
-
THIRD ATTENTION – the state of freedom beyond the eagle, when the warrior has achieved the state of Wholeness. The state of the ubiquitous, non-local singularity of awareness (from Quantum Shaman)
-
Thank you for this re-briefing, guys.
-
To cross over to freedom does not mean eternal life as eternity is commonly understood-that is, as living forever. What the rule states is that one can keep the awareness which is ordinarily relinquished at the moment of dying. I cannot explain what it means to keep that awareness. My benefactor told me that at the moment of crossing, one enters into the third attention, and the body in its entirety is kindled with knowledge. Every cell at once becomes aware of itself, and also aware of the totality of the body.
This kind of awareness is meaningless to our compartmentalized minds. Therefore the crux of the warrior's struggle is not so much to realize that the crossing over stated in the rule means crossing to the third attention, but rather to conceive that there exists such an awareness at all. (Castaneda)
-
Chapter (on the first, second and third attentions) missing from the English version of Eagle's Gift (http://www.scribd.com/doc/387479/Carlos-Castaneda-Missing-Chapter-From-Carlos-Castanedas-Eagles-Gift)
-
Chapter (on the first, second and third attentions) missing from the English version of Eagle's Gift (http://www.scribd.com/doc/387479/Carlos-Castaneda-Missing-Chapter-From-Carlos-Castanedas-Eagles-Gift)
Thanks. :)
-
The Third attention is that point in the manifested universe, that level of awareness, where the awareness of both manifest and unmanifest is assembled in a mutual and fully intelligent act of cooperation. In this respect it is the ultimate paradox, but a paradox which grants access to the blueprint of the universe, and which is therefore termed the The Third Ring of Power. The accent in reaching the Third Attention is not on acquiring power, but on achieving utter impeccability that automatically yields an extremely fine and high level of personal power.
Only sufficiently high level of impeccability opens the gate to totality of the self and the latter is a stepping stone on the journey to the ultimate truth. In order to seek out the ultimate truth, warrior must enter the Third Attention (while being alive). The ultimate truth is to experience the inner self which, however, can never be fully known. The cost of true knowledge is one's life - this knowledge can only be acquired through dedicating one's life to the quest. (Theun Mares)
-
Interestingly, the above statements reveal two different approaches and views on the Third Attention.
1) Don Juan, Castaneda, Quantum Shaman: Third Attention is a state of consciusness achievable beyond death
2) Theun Mares, Kris Raphael (who frequently refers to TM): Third Attention is a state of consciousness achievable while in physical body
Don Juan and others stress, according to Castaneda, the need to gather personal power and be utterly impeccable to reach the Third Attention
Theun Mares stresses the utter impeccability as a key to personal power and the Third Attention.
In both cases the cost is one's life: in don Juan's words, literally; in Theun Mares' words, in terms of effort required.
-
Therefore the crux of the warrior's struggle...
to conceive that there exists such an awareness at all. (Castaneda)
odd that - but also odd is how difficult it is.
-
Quote from the excerpt provided:
I asked Don Juan w hat this displacement of aw areness implied.
He said
that the nagual has to strike on a precise spot, w hich varies from
person to person but w hich is alw ays located in the general area of the
shoulder blades. A nagual has to see to specify the spot, w hich is
located in the periphery of one's luminosity and not on the physical
body itself; once the nagual identifies it, he pushes it in, more that
striking it, and thus creates a concavity, a depression in the luminous
shield. The state of heightened aw areness resulting from this blow
lasts as much as this depression lasts. Some luminous shields go back
to their original forms by themselves, some have to be struck in
another point to be restored, and some others never go back to their
oval shapes.
Don Juan said that seers see aw areness as a peculiar glow .
Everyday aw areness is a glow on the right side, w hich extends from the
physical body's exterior to the periphery of our luminosity. Heightened
aw areness is a more intense shine associated w ith great speed and
concentration, a fulgor w hich saturates the periphery of the left side.
Don Juan said that seers explain w hat happens w ith the blow of
the nagual as a temporal dislodging of a center located in the luminous
cocoon of the body. The Eagle's emanations are in reality evaluated
and selected in that center. The blow alters their normal behavior.
-
odd that - but also odd is how difficult it is.
Mares says that old seers did not pay attention to the possibility of Third Attention because it was so plain, obvious and simple. They found manipulation of the world through the magic of the Second Attention much more attractive. According to Mares, living in the Third Attention and acting through it is utterly different from the usual stuff in the Second Attention. It is akin to acting on things that have not happened yet.
I don't think Castaneda provided any comment on Don Juan's views why the old seers missed the Third Attention.
-
Quote from the excerpt provided:
I asked Don Juan w hat this displacement of aw areness implied.
He said
that the nagual has to strike on a precise spot, w hich varies from
person to person but w hich is alw ays located in the general area of the
shoulder blades. A nagual has to see to specify the spot, w hich is
located in the periphery of one's luminosity and not on the physical
body itself; once the nagual identifies it, he pushes it in, more that
striking it, and thus creates a concavity, a depression in the luminous
shield. The state of heightened aw areness resulting from this blow
lasts as much as this depression lasts. Some luminous shields go back
to their original forms by themselves, some have to be struck in
another point to be restored, and some others never go back to their
oval shapes.
Don Juan said that seers see aw areness as a peculiar glow .
Everyday aw areness is a glow on the right side, w hich extends from the
physical body's exterior to the periphery of our luminosity. Heightened
aw areness is a more intense shine associated w ith great speed and
concentration, a fulgor w hich saturates the periphery of the left side.
Don Juan said that seers explain w hat happens w ith the blow of
the nagual as a temporal dislodging of a center located in the luminous
cocoon of the body. The Eagle's emanations are in reality evaluated
and selected in that center. The blow alters their normal behavior.
Strangely, reading this makes me think of Daniel! Ha!
How's this related to the Third Attention?
-
How's this related to the Third Attention?
:-\
The Chapter is on the First, Second and Third attentions. I assume that CC thought the info was relevant, (ie related). Anyway I just liked this particular passage.
-
:-\
The Chapter is on the First, Second and Third attentions. I assume that CC thought the info was relevant, (ie related). Anyway I just liked this particular passage.
...and bringing in Daniel. Well done.
-
...and bringing in Daniel. Well done.
That was a note to self, which is why it was invisible to everyone else. Take offense if you like, but I'm not derailing another thread because you do not approve. We have places to discuss this if you so choose.
-
You have already done the deed. Please, feel free to have this thread and all the rest.
Bye-bye.
-
Shamans like don Juan Matus defined their quest as the quest of becoming, in the end, an inorganic being, meaning energy aware of itself, action as a cohesive unit, but without an organism. They called this aspect of their cognition total freedom, a state in which awareness exists, free from the impositions of socialization and syntax. (Castaneda, The Teachings of don Juan: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge)
-
You have already done the deed. Please, feel free to have this thread and all the rest.
Bye-bye.
Juhani, sarcasm is not helpful to encouraging participation in Soma.
Lori is free to post her automatic associations on any thread without feeling she is being judged.
-
Juhani, sarcasm is not helpful to encouraging participation in Soma.
Lori is free to post her automatic associations on any thread without feeling she is being judged.
Thanks Michael for the comment and the support, anyway.
-
1st world = 3 dimensional (ie. with two eyes we see distance - this and that, and here and there).
2nd world = 2 dimensional (ie a picture world, duality - this and that, which is what pictures are about)
3rd world = 1 dimensional (ie perception without pictures, non-duality, no comparisons)
don't get into a flap about that - it's just a way of talking.
what i think you are asking is how we move from the 2nd to the 3rd world. First, we do it when the astral body dies. But we also do it all the time - we have to be connected to the 3rd world or we wouldn't exist. The issue always is how to extend awareness from the 1st through the 2nd and into the 3rd.
This is what DJ referred to as warriors of the 3rd attention. 3rd world is also known as the Sephirah Kether in the Kaballah, or Brahman in Hinduism - sometimes also associated with Shiva.
Hinduism has the best tools of thought to help understand. Brahman is 'without attributes', meaning it is unknowable, in our understanding of knowing.
3rd attention means extending our attention into the 3rd world. Hinduism calls this moksha. It is worth noting that the entirety of Hindu thought in almost all it's variations, is dedicated to moksha - that's what it's all about. And so is it's 'reformation' Buddhism. Also, one could argue, is what is referred to as Philosophical Taoism, and Esoteric Taoism, but definitely not Popular Taoism.
Neither Judiasm, Christianity or Islam (the Abrahamic Religions) have any interest in this concept at all, aside from placing the Sephirah Kether at the top of the tree in Esoteric Judiasm - and one could also argue Northen Sufism has similar interests. But these are not within the orthodox religious field of any Abrahamic religion.
Toltec is dedicated to this concept, but only as part of it's third wave - a later development.
How to shift into the 3rd attention? Rudolf Steiner actually mapped it - he gave some early phases just passed the doorway, so to speak. I can't remember exactly, but they included things like intention.
There are two ways - direct and long.
Direct is absolute silence - the deepest experience of absolute silence you can possibly plumb.
Long is the journey, of mastery of passage. I mean you only need to master sufficient to pass through. Passage through the 1st and 2nd worlds. This means using the 1st and 2nd worlds - developing effectiveness in - to enter the 3rd world as a consequence of evolution of being - transformation.
It is my opinion that the long is the main task, but it also incorporates the direct. I am suspicious that the direct path can ever really be effective on its own. That is why i launched into the world, instead of retiring to a zen monastery. The problem with the long is that we get side-tracked along the way, and forget we are only passing through (a great song btw).
now we get into an area that preoccupies my attention considerably. I'll just say that at some point, the long is demonstrated beyond a shadow of doubt to be impossible, futile. It simply can't be done. I have a song about that myself ("There's only one thing that you can cling to, and you won't find it no matter what you do.")
This is where we cast ourselves upon the mercy of the Bird. The active principle of Spirit. that does not mean we give up our own efforts.
It is like we are ascending a building, and each floor has steps leading to the next floor. But the the final steps to the roof of the building are missing. There are no steps for the last section.
-
The important point here is that when the warrior has acquired sufficient intent he will be able to silence the internal dialogue, which will in turn enable him to break the fixation of his awareness and to make his assemblage point fluid. Once this has been accomplished the warrior not only enters the awareness of his dreamer, but he also becomes at-one with his dreamer, which is of course his real self. It is this state of being which is termed the Third Attention, a level of awareness in which the warrior can consciously manipulate his dreamer's expression of the one universal force, namely the will of the Eagle, or intent. Hence it is stated that there comes a time in the life of the warrior when the command of the warrior becomes the command of the Eagle. (Theun Mares)
-
Shamans like don Juan Matus defined their quest as the quest of becoming, in the end, an inorganic being, meaning energy aware of itself, action as a cohesive unit, but without an organism. They called this aspect of their cognition total freedom, a state in which awareness exists, free from the impositions of socialization and syntax. (Castaneda, The Teachings of don Juan: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge)
And yet: Eagle's Gift
"The new seers... let the mastery of awareness develop to its natural end, which is to extend the glow of awareness beyond the bounds of the luminous cocoon in one single stroke. The third attention is attained when the glow of awareness turns into the fire from within: a glow that kindles not one band at a time but all the... emanations inside man's cocoon." Don Juan expressed his awe for the new seers' deliberate effort to attain the third attention while they are alive and conscious of their individuality... "The supreme accomplishment of human beings," he said, "is to attain that level of attention while retaining the life-force, without becoming a disembodied awareness moving like a flicker of light..." (p 77-78)
...[T]he glow produced by a state of total awareness... is seen as a burst of incandescence in the entire luminous egg. It is an explosion of light of such a magnitude that the boundaries of the shell are diffused and the inside emanations extend themselves beyond anything imaginable. "Are those special cases, don Juan?"
"Certainly. They happen only to seers. No other living men or any other living creatures brighten up like that. Seers who deliberately attain total awareness are a sight to behold. That is the moment when they burn from within. The fire from within consumes them. And in full awareness they fuse themselves to the emanations at large, and glide into eternity"...
"[As seers] our case is a bit different, because we are at the end of our trail. We are not seeking anything... we go from day to day doing nothing. We are waiting. I will not tire of repeating this: we know that we are waiting and we know what we are waiting for. We are waiting for freedom!" (p 120-121)
It occurs that Don Juan did not exclude the possibility of reaching the third attention (in the sense of fully aligning oneself with it) while alive. It just seems to be very rare - as is enlightenment in Hinduism/Buddhism (?)
Interesting question then is about the relationship of enlightenment and the physical death.
-
I think Jahn and Juhani are pretty alike in a way. You both never actually speak about your own experience, but something you have read and learned. There is a little difference though. Jahn is a little older and on a more respected situation in the society (for him at least) and thus thinks he is also on a more achieved level spiritually. To me it looks like it is all just a construction in the mind. You are really nothing what you speak of. You are an ordinary person who has aqueried specific lifestile. Juhani at least seems to realise that he is indeed nothing special, just he is kind of trapped in the unconcious mechanisms. He just wants to be rough, maybe it's manly or something for him.
So anyway, could you all just drop this pretence and talk about where you really are? I mean why the hell should we do all this show here, for who? Our personal little egos to feel better? Why, why, why?
Could we have some honesty? For this little time I was in Toltec Forum (or whatever it was called) and read the posts and searched the history, there was honesty between members, you couldn't pretend you are something special and more advanced, if you tried, you were brought down to earth by other members quickly.
Here, all these years there is this feeling of supression. Why? What the flower do you want, acceptanse from the members of this forum? What the hell are you going to do with it?
-
And Michael..., you are just very much more clever with playing your cards and what you have learned.
-
8)
-
I think Jahn and Juhani are pretty alike in a way. You both never actually speak about your own experience, but something you have read and learned. There is a little difference though. Jahn is a little older and on a more respected situation in the society (for him at least) and thus thinks he is also on a more achieved level spiritually. To me it looks like it is all just a construction in the mind. You are really nothing what you speak of. You are an ordinary person who has aqueried specific lifestile. Juhani at least seems to realise that he is indeed nothing special, just he is kind of trapped in the unconcious mechanisms. He just wants to be rough, maybe it's manly or something for him.
So anyway, could you all just drop this pretence and talk about where you really are? I mean why the hell should we do all this show here, for who? Our personal little egos to feel better? Why, why, why?
Could we have some honesty? For this little time I was in Toltec Forum (or whatever it was called) and read the posts and searched the history, there was honesty between members, you couldn't pretend you are something special and more advanced, if you tried, you were brought down to earth by other members quickly.
Here, all these years there is this feeling of supression. Why? What the flower do you want, acceptanse from the members of this forum? What the hell are you going to do with it?
And Michael..., you are just very much more clever with playing your cards and what you have learned.
Nice, T ... I have always loved your keen 'eye'. :-*
What I've learned in these forums, though, is It's not what people present 'to be', because that doesn't really matter. What matters is what you, yourself learn from what they present. One person can be many to others. in other words, each forum member gets what they 'want' or 'need' depending on their state of awareness. There are many decks of cards ;)
Bottom line is you have to whittle it down to your own 'truth'.
-
Sure, I'm cool with everything. Just had a few beers yesterday :P
Nice, T ... I have always loved your keen 'eye'. :-*
What I've learned in these forums, though, is It's not what people present 'to be', because that doesn't really matter. What matters is what you, yourself learn from what they present. One person can be many to others. in other words, each forum member gets what they 'want' or 'need' depending on their state of awareness. There are many decks of cards ;)
Bottom line is you have to whittle it down to your own 'truth'.
-
Jahn is a little older and on a more respected situation in the society (for him at least) and thus thinks he is also on a more achieved level spiritually. To me it looks like it is all just a construction in the mind. You are really nothing what you speak of. You are an ordinary person who has aqueried specific lifestile.
It is more about when you bought the ticket to the third attention, or whatever, than to be on any special level. I got my ticket in 1978. It took many years to add the experiences back then into my tonal.
The third attention is nothing that is essential for growth and evolution therefore I have nothing more to add about it.
-
But how can I take seriously someone who is only talking about theory?
-
So anyway, could you all just drop this pretence and talk about where you really are? I mean why the hell should we do all this show here, for who? Our personal little egos to feel better? Why, why, why?
Good questions and timely.
So you want to know where I really am and what I do? What I meditate on, what problems do I solve in life? What trance exercises I do, what journeys? What are the most secret aspirations of mine?
These are tricky questions as one must carefully draw the line between opening up and keeping one's mantra secret. There are also considerations of being inaccessible to the world. To whom and to what extent I should make myself available/accessible.
I meditate about 7 times a week, recapitulate every single day of my life. These are routines. I have set my life so that I have much more time than before to dedicate to my quest. Life is ticking - nothing to tell, really. As a human being or a member of society I am boring to death.
Point to ponder: what happens in the fraction of a second before opening your eyes - how does the world come into being and how does it look like when you do not look?
-
So you want to know where I really am and what I do? What I meditate on, what problems do I solve in life? What trance exercises I do, what journeys? What are the most secret aspirations of mine?
These are tricky questions as one must carefully draw the line between opening up and keeping one's mantra secret. There are also considerations of being inaccessible to the world. To whom and to what extent I should make myself available/accessible.
Yeah I understand this. I don't like to talk about everything to the detail either. Some things are better to ripen on their own. But yes personal experiences would be much more like food for me than theories. Not like an entertainment, but something to really ponder about.
I guess I want the impossible then. When the personal experiences are so valuable and intimate, that they can't be chared.
-
Yeah I understand this. I don't like to talk about everything to the detail either. Some things are better to ripen on their own. But yes personal experiences would be much more like food for me than theories. Not like an entertainment, but something to really ponder about.
I guess I want the impossible then. When the personal experiences are so valuable and intimate, that they can't be chared.
There is always a way. Share yours and others will share as well (to a reasonable extent). It might work this way to achieve greater openness than now. If there is a reciprocity, things might change. ;)
-
Well, the thing is that I'm also boring to death, nothing much to tell :)
But I'll try to be attentive, maybe I'll find something to talk about.
There is always a way. Share yours and others will share as well (to a reasonable extent). It might work this way. If there is a reciprocity, things might change.
-
But how can I take seriously someone who is only talking about theory?
You will have your own 3rd attention, some time in your life.
-
It is more about when you bought the ticket to the third attention, I got my ticket in 1978. It took many years to add the experiences back then into my tonal.
That's interesting, Jahn ... I think it happened for me in 1978 too. Though I didn't have the words to articulate it as such, and spent many years questioning my sanity. Until I hooked up with the spiritualists. The spiritualists did not frame things in the Castaneda syntax, however. For them it was all about Spirit.
-
What do you mean by getting a ticket to third attention? Can you describe exactly how it happened?
This all just seems like a weird twist in terminology, so could you (and Jahn) just explain what are you talking about?
That's interesting, Jahn ... I think it happened for me in 1978 too. Though I didn't have the words to articulate it as such, and spent many years questioning my sanity. Until I hooked up with the spiritualists. The spiritualists did not frame things in the Castaneda syntax, however. For them it was all about Spirit.
-
What do you mean by getting a ticket to third attention? Can you describe exactly how it happened?
That's Jahn's expression, not mine ... If I understand it, it references the moment when one apprehends and embraces that which is beyond this plane ... but, with an imperative attached that one must work the rest of one's life to bring that beyond into the physical ... to see one's life, body - everything - as manifestation of that place on the other side of the crack.
This congealed for me over several years when I lived on the edge of some woods. "The moment" I recall most - though there were many many such moments - was one very hot day, when I was sitting on the ground, taking a break from clearing out a group of dead saplings. All I could smell was the mixture of my sweat and the soil I'd been digging. The birds were chirping, cicadas were chiming, and there was just enough of a breeze to dry the sweat on my face. I was dizzy from the heat and humidity, and was idly brushing my palms along the tips of grass around me, and thinking about the grass.
Then I realized that I was the grass, and the soil, the birds, the cicadas. And I was able to stalk that realization as well at the time, seeing that most religions would find that "low" and banal - that I could hardly go shouting from the rooftops that I was dirt! That the glory of that awareness was not going to be shared easily. That the whole error in society's perception was that the grass-was-just-grass: instead, it was alive! Sentient. Spirit was everywhere. (And so too God...)
On that same day, I looked at the palms of my hands, my veins therein, and knew them to be rivers. I was one with everything ... here and there. So was everyone - only separated by perception. It was like a drug-experience, this moment, and there were many more to follow. There still are.
-
PS - at the time, I did not foresee the difficulty of continuing on, holding up so many worlds. But there really was no choice. Which is what some teachers mean, I think, when they say there is no turning back.
-
Thanks for the explanation :)
I don't remember having experienced something like this, but there was a very stressful time in my life when i was very ill and no one seemed to notice or care. I was eleven and couldn't ask help either, i just thought i'm a freak and other people also treated me as a freak. So I had some weird shifts, one i remember is i saw some colorful lines connecting everything to everything. I can almost remember how natural this seemed, but when i thought about it later, it seemed weird, like how could these lines connect things to eachother. Also i remeber this certain thought from this periond, that everything is one. I think i must have had some experiences which i have forgotten.
-
PS - at the time, I did not foresee the difficulty of continuing on, holding up so many worlds. But there really was no choice. Which is what some teachers mean, I think, when they say there is no turning back.
I spent a decade or 2 being an utter fool, however, trying to move these peaks into relationships with men. Oh how misguided! I was definitely a case of "stopping at mean-spirited roadhouses," as Rumi would say. Live and learn...
-
Then I realized that I was the grass, and the soil, the birds, the cicadas. And I was able to stalk that realization as well at the time, seeing that most religions would find that "low" and banal - that I could hardly go shouting from the rooftops that I was dirt! That the glory of that awareness was not going to be shared easily. That the whole error in society's perception was that the grass-was-just-grass: instead, it was alive! Sentient. Spirit was everywhere. (And so too God...)
On that same day, I looked at the palms of my hands, my veins therein, and knew them to be rivers. I was one with everything ... here and there. So was everyone - only separated by perception. It was like a drug-experience, this moment, and there were many more to follow. There still are.
Great description Nichi. Our experiences may differ but the awareness and connection is the same.
-
PS - at the time, I did not foresee the difficulty of continuing on, holding up so many worlds. But there really was no choice. Which is what some teachers mean, I think, when they say there is no turning back.
That is the moment of no turning back, indeed.
-
I don't remember having experienced something like this, but there was a very stressful time in my life when i was very ill and no one seemed to notice or care. I was eleven and couldn't ask help either, i just thought i'm a freak and other people also treated me as a freak. So I had some weird shifts, one i remember is i saw some colorful lines connecting everything to everything. I can almost remember how natural this seemed, but when i thought about it later, it seemed weird, like how could these lines connect things to eachother. Also i remeber this certain thought from this periond, that everything is one. I think i must have had some experiences which i have forgotten.
These are 'preliminary experiences'. Typically there are numerous such experiences.
The 'ticket purchasing' however is a little different. Usually there has to be some way to arrange these preliminary experiences in a meaningful way. Finally, we have what I call the 'first enlightenment'. This is a moment, most likely after such an experience, when we realise something switches inside us.
In an instant, we realise there is nothing else we want to do with our life except explore further the mystery that has been revealed to us through these preliminary experiences. At that point, we instinctively dedicate ourselves to the Path - inspite of the fact we know nothing about what that means.
Something deep inside awakens, and we remember who we are and why we are alive. This is all on a 'sensing' level, and it takes many years for our mind to catch up and join in usefully.
It is much like we instantly see ourselves for the first time on a road in a vast landscape. We know that road is our road, and walk it we will, either sooner or later, now or in the future. Once the ticket has been bought, it never expires.
Yet we can choose to waste much time in uneasy false beliefs that satisfaction will come from other paths. Uncooked seeds, that have to be thoroughly recognised as empty and futile. No words can convince us, we have to spend endless precious energy and time in proving to ourselves that there is only one path for us, and the sooner we get to it, the happier we will be.
We are all such idiots, but please don't spend more time than necessary in spiritless roads and roadhouses.
Taimi, you are a grumpy bitch because inside, you know why you have found yourself here, but you refuse to accept your fate. You keep looking to the world to make you happy, and because it can't, you have the arrogance to call yourself bored. There is only one path that will give you satisfaction, and it won't come to you on a plate - you will have to work harder than you have ever worked for anything in your life. There is no room for spoilt brats on this path - when you feel tired and irritable, that's precisely when you have to apply yourself to all the theories and practices that litter this forum.
You shoved your ticket into your back pocket, and tried to buy some others instead. Sorry, it won't work. Get that ticket out of your back pocket and show you can earn the privilege of having received it. Every time you want to complain, reach around to your back pocket and feel for that ticket.
Boredom is sound of spirit knocking - it means stop and sit absolutely still. Don't try to escape it.
-
Boredom is sound of spirit knocking - it means stop and sit absolutely still. Don't try to escape it.
Well, if i can't do it then i can't do it also just because you are telling me to do so.
-
You are superb taimi; you can do anything you want. You just have to want it badly enough.
-
Yes, I guess I don't want it badly enough yet.
I'll just leave and see what happens then.
You are superb taimi; you can do anything you want. You just have to want it badly enough.
-
"Death/rebirth events come in all shapes and sizes, and this was my first. My First Step. This was the one that separates who I was from what I am now. That was the day I set fire to my life and went to war."
Jed McKenna ~ Spiritual Enlightenment The Damnedest Thing
A fire, a massacre of everything believed to be the truth. Clearing away the rubble of a war on self ... an ashened forest, sprouting new growth.
-
This thread is crazy.
I don't know if we can access the third attention until death, and even then, I don't know if we can access it. I feel this is something the Buddha either achieved or went beyond, but the third attention now. I primarily focus now, on the here and now, and some dreaming in the second. But I don't concern myself too much with the third attention. I know if I 'think' I experienced it, it is probably not 'it.'
Also I would say Jahn has shared experiences, Juhani - not too much.
-
Mares says that old seers did not pay attention to the possibility of Third Attention because it was so plain, obvious and simple. They found manipulation of the world through the magic of the Second Attention much more attractive. According to Mares, living in the Third Attention and acting through it is utterly different from the usual stuff in the Second Attention. It is akin to acting on things that have not happened yet.
I don't think Castaneda provided any comment on Don Juan's views why the old seers missed the Third Attention.
Another promising thread that went to shit. The Old Seers were having too much fun in the second attention to perceive a third. Then they got trapped in the IB world and I suspect Carlos did too. For awhile. They became food. But they thought they had the upper hand of it. Just my take on it. I could be wrong since this was long ago. But I can see why don juan warned of them and knowing how the second attention can be alluring and how the IBers are, I estimate thats why.
Just posting this for anyone who reads it. Ignore the shit show guests.