Author Topic: The second coming  (Read 1650 times)

Jahn

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Re: The second coming
« Reply #75 on: July 03, 2014, 06:06:54 AM »
I suppose you felt it was a right thing to do.

I meant that every person inside himself or herself must have some understanding of right and wrong.

That decision I made in 1974 was Right for me, it was in alignment with Me then.
I could not expect anyone else to do that decision. So joining the Army for them (the others) was Right.

Please notice this paradox, I do (or did) what is Right, and the others that do the opposite does the Right thing too!

In 1974 the Cold War was present, to join the Army then was a bit sharper than today. A Russia attack is something we do not have to bother about today to the same degree as in the mid 1970's , even if Putin has a tough attitude.

That my decision to go to prison instead of doing my "Duty" was heavy for my family should perhaps be mentioned too. My Grandfather was a Major General during World War II. Having the responsibility of the Boden Fortress in the highest North of Seden.
Even my father had a career within the Army ending up as a Major in the reserve. He was very annoyed with my decision to refuse the duty. In a second I had become the black sheep of the family.

 
« Last Edit: July 03, 2014, 06:23:23 AM by Jahn »

Offline Michael

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Re: The second coming
« Reply #76 on: July 03, 2014, 09:06:09 PM »
Big decision all right. Severed from the family and social morality in one fell swoop. I expect you suffered qite a bit, and most likely laid the foundation for your strength today.

Offline Nichi

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Re: The second coming
« Reply #77 on: July 04, 2014, 05:37:14 AM »
For that decision, to not join the Army, I had to go to jail.

Jahn, for how long?
Not here, not there, but everywhere - always right before your eyes.
~Hsin Hsin Ming

Offline Nick

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Re: The second coming
« Reply #78 on: July 15, 2014, 09:37:35 PM »
For an example I try not to kill bugs and plants, not because I love them, but because I respect their life, the fact that they are alive.

And I'm not alking about only of the right and wrong towards other people, but also generally in ones own life and inner world.



I almost lost track of this thread.

Okay, would you say that you respect the life of a bug, because you are also alive? That is you know what it means to be alive, and respect your own life. So it is only right you respect their life?
"As long as we confuse the myriad forms of the divine lila with reality, without perceiving the unity of Brahman underlying all these forms, we are under the spell of maya..."
 -Fritjof Capra, The Tao of Physics: An Exploration of the Parallels between Modern Physics and Eastern Mysticism

Offline Taimyr

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Re: The second coming
« Reply #79 on: July 25, 2014, 03:52:26 PM »
What do you mean?

So it is only right you respect their life?

Offline Nick

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Re: The second coming
« Reply #80 on: July 27, 2014, 10:36:05 AM »
What do you mean?


You respect the bugs life, because you're both, alive.
"As long as we confuse the myriad forms of the divine lila with reality, without perceiving the unity of Brahman underlying all these forms, we are under the spell of maya..."
 -Fritjof Capra, The Tao of Physics: An Exploration of the Parallels between Modern Physics and Eastern Mysticism

Offline Taimyr

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Re: The second coming
« Reply #81 on: July 27, 2014, 03:10:50 PM »
Because physical life is like an oportunity for evolving, at least for me. So I wouldn't want to end a life, if it can continue. Of course I don't know anything about bug evolution for an example, but still, let them be (if possible).

Offline Nick

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Re: The second coming
« Reply #82 on: July 27, 2014, 03:33:27 PM »
Because physical life is like an oportunity for evolving, at least for me. So I wouldn't want to end a life, if it can continue. Of course I don't know anything about bug evolution for an example, but still, let them be (if possible).

So you agree that it is generally good to do unto others as you would have them do to you?
"As long as we confuse the myriad forms of the divine lila with reality, without perceiving the unity of Brahman underlying all these forms, we are under the spell of maya..."
 -Fritjof Capra, The Tao of Physics: An Exploration of the Parallels between Modern Physics and Eastern Mysticism

Offline Taimyr

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Re: The second coming
« Reply #83 on: July 27, 2014, 11:46:29 PM »
I suppose it can be good to treat others as you want them to treat you, but for me it's is not that important, I mean I don't have much expectations about how people should treat me.

Why is this idea of treating others the way you want to be treated, important? If I do it, I do it completely automatically. I don't find it a big deal.

So you agree that it is generally good to do unto others as you would have them do to you?

Jahn

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Re: The second coming
« Reply #84 on: July 28, 2014, 05:14:10 AM »
You respect the bugs life, because you're both, alive.

Unfortunately some people do a distinction between humans and animals, placing us above the animals.

My son went to Ethiopia and catched this statement in a discussion near him.
 A guy said that he did not belive in God/Allah to the others, which made someone reply upset:
 - But then you are like an animal.

This is of course a very stupid idea. Animals where on this planet before us and we can be happy that they give us so much in return. We are the bastards compared to the animals. Let us turn it the other way and place the animals above us, not equal, but instead the keepers of our true nature on earth.

Don Juan explained to Carlos that Carlos' Nagual animal was the fox. The Fox is the earth bound animal of the same energy and aspect, as the Raven.



« Last Edit: July 28, 2014, 05:25:37 AM by Jahn »

Jahn

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Re: The second coming
« Reply #85 on: July 28, 2014, 05:18:01 AM »
I suppose it can be good to treat others as you want them to treat you, but for me it's is not that important, I mean I don't have much expectations about how people should treat me.

Why is this idea of treating others the way you want to be treated, important? If I do it, I do it completely automatically. I don't find it a big deal.


It is a big deal.
"Do unto others  ...."
Is a universal (spiritual) rule, also mentioned by Jesus (to make the statement even more valid  ;D )

Offline Taimyr

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Re: The second coming
« Reply #86 on: July 28, 2014, 06:02:24 AM »
I meant why would he ask me about that, it's kind of selfevident.

It is a big deal.
"Do unto others  ...."
Is a universal (spiritual) rule, also mentioned by Jesus (to make the statement even more valid  ;D )

Offline Nick

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Re: The second coming
« Reply #87 on: July 28, 2014, 10:03:43 AM »
I suppose it can be good to treat others as you want them to treat you, but for me it's is not that important, I mean I don't have much expectations about how people should treat me.

Why is this idea of treating others the way you want to be treated, important? If I do it, I do it completely automatically. I don't find it a big deal.


To reply to this one, and your last one about why I would ask...

Often it helps to get an initial agreement before proceeding to throw a whole bunch of words at the other person. 

The reason I asked my question is that we were discussing what it means to be moral. If we can agree on this moral principle I believe I can show how most of morality relates to this one principle. I can even take it a step further, to relate it to Gurdjieff's concept of "external considering".

Remember Jahn said...Jahn correct me if I'm wrong. That there is no such thing as right and wrong. That it is all actually about energy. We could simplify that as qualities of lightness or heaviness. I can then simplify it all in terms of energy. All this is much easier than it sounds.

I would add that some people are 'moralizers'. These people are a highly serious type. Often lacking a healthy sense of humor, and an ability to have fun. Their goal is to be better than others, their morality is to bolster their own self-importance. 

Back to the issue at hand.

You don't care what others do to you?

Do you care how you treat yourself?

Do you care how you treat others?

If you can answer yes to both of those would it then follow that you agree it is good to:

Treat others as you would want to treat yourself?
« Last Edit: July 28, 2014, 10:22:58 AM by Nick »
"As long as we confuse the myriad forms of the divine lila with reality, without perceiving the unity of Brahman underlying all these forms, we are under the spell of maya..."
 -Fritjof Capra, The Tao of Physics: An Exploration of the Parallels between Modern Physics and Eastern Mysticism

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Re: The second coming
« Reply #88 on: July 28, 2014, 12:37:05 PM »
Taimi i do the same thing. I avoid killing bugs if possible. They are life to, and I see it pointless to kill them. This doesnt mean I wont. Like if a black widow got in my house, its her or me. But I will avoid it if possible. I see human life more valuable, that may not be nice but lets face it, as Im human I value humans more, but they still have significance so I avoid killing them if i can.
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

Offline Taimyr

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Re: The second coming
« Reply #89 on: July 28, 2014, 05:39:44 PM »
The way people treat me is laregly affected by how I see things and how I appear to others. It's not something outside of me. For an example I have a friend who always complains and talks about what someone did and so on. When I think about these things, I am like wow, I wouldn't even pay attention to these things which she takes personally. I don't find a lot of things that irritate me, so I appear realxed and easy going which makes others around also easy going. I don't think about it if it's right or wrong, it just makes life more easy and smooth.

I treat myself the way I find useful, if that means caring, then ok, caring it is :) I wouldn't say I really care about others, I just let them be. Or I behave the way that I find fitting in a situation, which doesn't mean I deeply care about them or want them to behave same way with me.

Do I care how people treat me? From one perspective yes, because it makes life smoother if they treat me well. From another perspective I don't, because it doesn't really matter, it's not important what other people do and in a spiritual sense there are lots of other things besides my realtions to other humans.

Now, may I ask, is it important to you how others treat you and why?
Do you find it important to treat others the way you want them to treat you, and why?

You don't care what others do to you?

Do you care how you treat yourself?

Do you care how you treat others?

If you can answer yes to both of those would it then follow that you agree it is good to:

Treat others as you would want to treat yourself?
« Last Edit: July 28, 2014, 06:01:46 PM by Taimyr »

 

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