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Said to myself, I won't post here again. ......
But here 's one I like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfryizBctss
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Said to myself, I won't post here again. ......
Though you might have been trying to fight your double on this.
But here 's one I like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfryizBctss
I don't normally go for this kind of thing, but these guys have something really good. Aside for the guitars (which I like) they remind me of early Procol Harum.
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Though you might have been trying to fight your double on this.
Don't know exactly what you mean, but yeah, posting here makes me feel like I am not being, the original me.
Not that my path was not worthy and rich in learning.
I just feel a restriction in expressing me.
To cut the bull, I can't make a word of this:
Though you might have been trying to fight your double on this.
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Don't know exactly what you mean, but yeah, posting here makes me feel like I am not being, the original me.
Not that my path was not worthy and rich in learning.
I just feel a restriction in expressing me.
To cut the bull, I can't make a word of this:
Though you might have been trying to fight your double on this.
Excellent post Nik!
You know, in all the time Restless Soma has been running, I have never seen such a post which enables me to explain something so fundamental to this forum.
We have 48 current members and probably double that in others who have deleted their membership. And how many do you see posting here? None (except for you and on occasion Nemo, who will most likely seek more exciting venues). Do you know why they don't post anymore? Precisely for the reason you have so artlessly articulated. I will explain. Your English may not be up to all the concepts I outline, but I recommend you ponder this post carefully.
We all have many me's. There is the me our family know, the me our friends know, the me our work scene knows, the me the government knows (usually by a number). The me our intimate partner knows / has known / will know. And so forth: the angry me, the quiet me, the frightened me, the confident me, the child me, the parent me, the adult me....
Then there is the private me - the secret me who no one else really knows, because no one takes the time and trouble to find out. For many people the private me is weak and vague, but for some of us, it is the most important me in our bag-of-me's: it is the real me. Most people who find their way to this forum have a strong sense of this private me. They come here seeking validation and recognition for their private me. Unfortunately, they don't find that here. Do you know why?
This forum was set up for a different purpose. You see, there is another me which has been forgotten. This me can never be known fully, because it's very nature is mystery. It does not belong to the common battleground of me's within us - amongst the perennial struggle for each me to survive or dominate, this mystery me is always absent. It exists outside the sense of completeness we all have about our being. It is the unknown me. We call this me the double.
Restless Soma is set up and dedicated to the path of the double.
You are absolutely candid and correct in saying "I just feel a restriction in expressing me." No one has ever put it better.
In this forum, we do not set out to obstruct the private me. There is every good reason for the healthy growth of the private me. But the forum is what it is, and that means every member eventually finds themselves before a struggle between the private me and the double. Some succeeded in this struggle, whereby their private me came to the realisation that they were not the only ruler of their destiny, and thus arrived at a constructive sharing of power with this elusive being, the double. They were the small minority, and they moved on to their next phase of growth in which a close partnership with the double became the core of their path.
The greater majority left Restless Soma because they failed the challenge. They chose to reject their double and retain the sovereignty of their private me. These people believe the growth in power of their private me is what spirituality is all about. They found Restless Soma a hindrance to their 'spiritual' path - the path of their private me. They had no choice but to leave.
Of course they will all deny this vehemently, but because you have articulated this dilemma so simply and clearly, for the very first time in Restless Soma, I am telling you now what is really happening here in this forum. That is the reason it is called Restless.
The only people who find their way here are those who have approached a critical threshold in their life journey. They are ready for the challenge of the double. There can be no peace in our soul until this challenge has been successfully negotiated, thus it is known as the restless phase of the path - there can be no peace in a soul that is estranged from the double, once the possibility of it's existence is intuited.
Your private me is correct in it's desire to not return here, but it is your double that has brought you back, no matter what reason you think you returned for. That is why I said I "thought you might have been trying to fight your double on this".
The path of the double can only be entered upon once the double has evolved sufficiently to actively intervene in our life. Unfortunately, for most people, the double lacks the power or the wisdom to intervene effectively, and thus to challenge the authority of the private me. (By contract, there are many stories of doubles striking down all the me's inside and taking undisputed control, but rarely do you meet such cases in real life, and anyway, such domination by the double is not advised - a partnership is the best.)
Your comment above indicates your private me has the intelligence to see clearly, the honesty to acknowledge the situation, and the lack of overbearing self-importance to speak it out loud on the forum. These are excellent signs.
Now you must make a choice. Will your private me allow for the possibility of the existence of a rival - another me of equal or greater authority, which you know nothing about? Are you willing to set to one side your private me for the path of the double? Only you can make that choice, and only I will know what choice you have made.
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Excellent post Michael, this is similar to the thing to yet to be said in The Toltec's thread. I only take exception to nemo is most likely off to more exciting venues. What could be more exciting than finding someone who talks my lingo.
This what you speak of i call dropping the intent of the first attention, you have also recommended against dreaming, which i agree with . Being consciously aware of the integration of the as you call double I call the beginnings of the third attention. If the double engages acts out without the private me being hmmm best word may be authentic, then to some degree resulting societal norms being transgressed, can lead to unwanted results.
My gig is about collecting a mass of adepts for lack of a better word, which I seem to be failing miserably at, which I am okay with because I am a bit of a loner anyway. DJ said a new better adjusted cycle if is to come, must come of itself. It has come to my seeing, but precious few speak Toltec.
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Hi Nemo. Please don't say I recommend against dreaming - far from it, dreaming is an essential phase of the path. What I recommend against is becoming trapped in dreaming, or rather, trapped by dreaming. But then, I recommend against being trapped by anything, and stalling the endless quest.
https://vimeo.com/61582928
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'llo
quoting: Your private me is correct in it's desire to not return here, but it is your double that has brought you back, no matter what reason you think you returned for. That is why I said I "thought you might have been trying to fight your double on this".
I didn't have any desire to not / not to return here. I had the desire not to post again. -Which was not a desire;a decision.
You didn't say thought you might have been trying to fight your double... ;You said "though"
____________
And by all means there 's no authority above me.
Don't mess this up, I mean there is no person an authority of/over me.
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Feel free to say I recommend against dreaming, the main reason, is that energetically it used to be up and out, because historically the first attention intent was very fixed and dominant in the everyday realm. In unusual circumstances in the past some beings had enough energy to be in this world but able to engage the intent of the double. Then there are examples such as DJ's warriors party that collectively had the energy to move the assemblage point of that group.
Now is the time currents of intent made available by the double, are robust enough to move the assemblage point of the earth. This movement will see, more and more individuals connecting to the double and the corresponding intent that comes with it.
As you can see with Nikosv's interaction here in this thread that he comes not seeking a teacher so much as a to share, to create interaction that is mutually beneficial.
First attention intent, is a binding force, and the principal energetically is based on control, of the masses by a few, that can be traced back to Egypt, a cult that knows how to parasitically manage group AP's. Dreaming is the realm of emanations charged and cast off by the intent of the first and can be navigated by the other, but it is not an alignment with emanations available to complete beings.
So i recommend a incremental movement of the assemblage point, that gently allows a functional beneficial engagement of an intent away from first attention. Dreaming like drugs, has its uses, but there are risks.
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How old are you Nemo?
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Ah not so easy to answer, without sounding delusional. nemo never came into being, has always been. This furrow of time that I am currently energizing called ric started 56 years ago.
How old are you Michael?
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/Blake_ancient_of_days.jpg/421px-Blake_ancient_of_days.jpg)
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61
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I 'm 31 . ;D
Is there a party mood?
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just kidding.
...But ah... what a feeling ,breathing the air, knowing that you won't forever...
even if it's an endless struggle
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Just plain old 31 and 61 ::) That's all there is to you guys?
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You mean plain ol' ... yeah :)
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Well Nemo, one thought is that the east is different from the west in the human existence.
I think for the east belief (self belief maybe more precisely?) matters more than for the west where it is more wisdom and intent.
That's one thing anyway.
We all came from No-where or is it No-thing ? :)
Nick~-
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When we are born, there are two parts to us, one part that knows all and another that is commanded to forget. An observer is born, and usually given a name by it's parents, who are also observers, commanded to forget, those parents then teach that new observer how to be, along with the collective beliefs of the particular area domiciled.
East or west, this is an irreducible fact, for the large majority of beings.
Hello Nikosv, glad to speak with u
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patience :)
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Age is a useful context when speaking about earth healing matters. I suspect every person who entered upon this path has desired to shift the AP of humanity at least. (Not sure too many desired to shift the AP of the earth itself.)
How this plays out in our own AP has a lot to do with age. I had a different approach to this at various stages during my adult life. I also belong to an organisation which is dedicated to shifting the AP of humanity, although they would never use such phrases. Their methods are quite different from what I suspect you have in mind Nemo.
If you have seen the film My Dinner With Andre, you will see in there many examples and ideas surrounding this matter.
There is a lot one could say about this, but let me contain myself to one issue you raised above:
As you can see with Nikosv's interaction here in this thread that he comes not seeking a teacher so much as a to share, to create interaction that is mutually beneficial.
The difficulty with speaking about shifting the AP, is that the AP is already shifting, and we operate from out of that collective AP - wherever it happens to be.
Let me give you and example. I once dropped into some friends house while they happened to be out. Can't recall why I came there, but before I left, I noticed on their wall a small blackboard for notes, like shopping lists etc. On this blackboard, they had both listed a series of things they each felt they needed to emphasise more in their life. What struck me and my partner (Julie, who was with me at the time) was how each of them desired to emphasise what we both felt they had already over-emphasised in their lives. Instead of realising they were imbalanced on some aspects, and needed to play down, they instead felt they were not strong enough in those qualities and needed to push them more.
This is the nature of the AP: it arranges itself to support itself. And when it gets the impulse to shift, it does this incredible trick whereby it contrives to convince itself it is shifting when in fact it is only digging itself deeper in the same spot. In short: you can't untie a bag from the inside.
The idea I quoted from you above is an aspect of the new shift in the global human AP. It has political backing from the 'right', because it is basically telling people they have no need to feel in any way inferior: they are perfect exactly how they are, no matter how unhealthy, unfit, obese, poor or uneducated they are. This is a conscious manoeuvre by the 'right' to trick the population into compliance, while the wealthy rip them off. It is not by chance - it is part of a very complex and cleverly worked out strategy.
But it is not constrained to politics. It also features in the global spiritual movement. It's spiritual counterpart is seen in the rejection of anyone who deems us to be less-advanced. It claims that everyone is enlightened already, and no subjection to charlatan gurus (who only seek self-aggrandisement and money) is required for spiritual awakening.
As usual this position has truth in it's theory, but fallacy in it's intent. It is the intent of the global AP to not shift, except through social-power external manipulations. One of the features of a collective AP is to deny any chance of an individual shifting their AP from within.
Without assistance from outside, we walk in circles. To claim that we only need to share, and don't need a guide, is part of this 'we are all already enlightened' node of the very collective AP that humanity needs to shift away from, if it is to have any chance of survival.
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Thank you for your thoughtful and well placed reply. Yes I differentiate for myself nemo from ric, I am here as nemo, and the question was addressed to nemo. but yes age is useful in the correct context.
I understood your post and find that there are some things I could add that are not in agreement with what you are saying, but from my view you are not wrong as much as i see that beliefs adjust reality and if you believe what you said then it is true. In the same vein what I believe would also be true but not in total agreement with what you have offered as your truth.
We can leave it there if you like and not interact on the points, but I can offer you mine, and then you have two views, of truth. Then it would be a mater of which truth not the one and only truth.
So would you like to hear what I have to offer?
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My gig is about collecting a mass of adepts for lack of a better word,
The thing about "adepts" (and it is a loaded word, isn't it?) is that they would be doing something very purposeful in their own travels, or cultivating their own gatherings. Can't see them joining any "mass" unless there was some specific Work to be done.
One could say that Don Juan's warrior party would be the exception, but then again, they were engaged in a specific Work.
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Just wanted to say that this is a darned interesting thread. Carry on, and thanks!
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Hello Nemo, to say the parents observer is hmmm...
I think of terms as manipulation, reality (which is not always easy to use a word to define) teachers,
and intitiators which again takes many dimensions.
But observers is subtle, ..but ......
Nick~-
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So would you like to hear what I have to offer?
There's no need to ask. Put your case.
If you put a view that I haven't considered I'm open to review of my own position.
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Michael what do you have in mind about assistance from the outside concerning the AP.
Back in 2001 my walls of self reflection have collapsed which later I considered an intent* of Spirit.
What other assistance from the outside is possible and well, how this is possible?
*actualy, act
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patience :)
I think patience is the key word - pass word ...uh, in here.
This is not manipulation.
Actualy I spent 3-4 hours before in a state believing or not that my time to die is near.
Coming here thought of the manipulations and strategies that are on the Big "table".
Can't say I have lust for life,
not even passion.
;)
Now I feel my strength has returned. ;
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okay great, nice flexible approach, Nick how I use the term observer, may get expanded as this goes on, and hello Nichi
What I present here may need a bit of mental yoga, to accept, and it is easier if you just entertain what I say as an operational belief rather than provable fact.
First I suppose we need to establish that the assemblage point of the earth and the assemblage point of and individual are connected, but are not the same, but that an individual has some say in what emanations they will align with within the expanse available within the greater AP of the earth. Though clusters of individual AP's can and do gravitate and co-create currents of intent in bands around the earth, and those particular emanations suit each individually and collectively.
So with movements such as Mahatma Gandhi's he had enough energy to create a cluster of action that had an effect on a particular cluster, but it was a first attention social movement, he was a central figure for change, So energetically speaking we could say that a cluster of individual AP's created a current of intent that had at a political result, but in my view although socially enlightened, it was all still very much first attention intent.
Though Gandhi saw the effects of the puppet masters and did what he could, these controllers like to play in the background and are very adaptable, because the understand energy and even if they don't use the term first attention, they know how to reestablish themselves on the top again because their modus operandi is the control of our energy and redirect any challenge to their dominance.
Sorry political tangent ;) running out of time so I will leave you with a question, There are three people in a one room shed/house how many rooms are there? Please let me know what you think/believe the answer is.
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Is it the flag moving, or the wind?
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Michael what do you have in mind about assistance from the outside concerning the AP.
Back in 2001 my walls of self reflection have collapsed which later I considered an intent* of Spirit.
What other assistance from the outside is possible and well, how this is possible?
*actualy, act
What and how?
The how is easier to say but takes longer to see. It is about warmth and pressure, although we sometimes mess up the hot-cold dichotomy, as we do the light-dark. meaning what we take to be one, often turns out to be the other.
The what is more difficult. The Chinese have the image of a bird sitting on an egg.
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There are three people in a one room shed/house how many rooms are there? Please let me know what you think/believe the answer is.
Three, one for each one. Four will be better, five even better.
~
Michael, this is a riddle to me.
I would ask what do you consider an earth AP shift.
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An earth AP shift. Nemo is correct that our individual and our collective AP is intrinsically linked to the AP of the earth. But when you speak of the earth, you are talking about something that is far beyond our comprehension, and yet more intimate to us than our closest human companion.
It is not too extreme to say that our relationship with the earth is the most important thing in our life. It is the ultimate salve for our heart. The only real answer to depression and loneliness. But that's another story.
If you want to get some idea of the earth's own AP journey, I recommend you to read two books, if you can find them. First is Man Whence How And Whither, by Annie Besant. The second is Occult Science by Rudolf Steiner. These books should not be viewed as material facts, but as insights to stimulate your own investigations. Any research into AP positions has to approach from an astral perspective. As Nemo said above, shifts seen solely within the Tonal, or mundane/social world perspective, is unsatisfactorily limited - it only shows modifications within the allowable range of the AP (which is not insignificant in it's own way). We have to see the AP from the intuitive sense.
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Nemo, did you have something to tell (especially/especial) with your question about the three people ?
(perhaps something in accordance with the assemblage point and the Earth- movement?)
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Yes,
How many earths are there that, that shed/house is on?
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I know about one eagle... ;D which is not very benevolent.
Will try to reply tho, unless you provide some answer first since I don't really know (taken that you speak more or less literally).
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I could give the answer, and then you would have my answer, but it is better to contemplate the questions, for a while longer. Or pm me if your in a hurry.
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Please don't let me restrain you from prosecuting your case here, but seeing as you are asking for dialogue, here is my view:
Is it the flag moving, or the wind?
I presume you know the answer to this old Zen story. The master's response : it is mind moving.
There is only one room. There are three minds, and in each of those minds is a separate 'room'. But then there is also a separate mind-room in the rat that lives under the floor, in flea in the wall, in the people who built the room. All these mind-rooms are only partial reflections of the actual room which exists outside the minds of all who have any contact with the real room.
Now the question is asked: can the room exist outside the mind? No - the very concept of 'room' is a mind concept. But that doesn't mean that there is nothing outside the mind, only that the mind has no capacity of comprehending what it doesn't know. There is definitely something there, but what it is we can't say. What we can say is that it exists while it exists, and it can shelter us from the weather and temperature. No doubt it is much more than that, but we living organisms are trapped in functionality.
Thus there is an earth, outside the minds of all it's denizens. But we can't call it 'earth' except that we need some verbal reference if we wish to discuss it. The same problem exists with 'god'. As soon as you say 'god' to anyone, you are talking about completely different mind-gods.
But the whole Buddhist mind-is-everything approach can be abused. It is designed to lead one to reality, not to protect you against the murdering hoards who came over the hill and killed the Toltecs and many Buddhists, before they developed the concept of relative-reality. The same applies to Global Warming. Removing the idea of Global Warming from your mind may assist you in reaching moksha, but it won't stop the environment you live in killing you. This is why DJ spoke of co-existing in two worlds at the same time - running above the cactus with one AP and dodging them with the other.
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By all means, offer away. You used one word that I had already put in a reply, but did not post yet, functional. I am only speaking from a view, among possible views zeroing in on mine in a way that can be seen by others, the progressions of which are reflected in depth of field or "seeing".
So yes the first answer would be functional and what I call first attention surface skimming, and the answer is one room, regardless how many are in it.
Then Michael you say that room does not exist separate from the mind, which was not the question i asked, but I can work with it. In my view the existence of the mind and the room are independent from one another, and remember this is just my view, I am not saying you are not correct, just different from my view.
Let me try to explain, when you watch a movie and there is that same shed/house in the movie. As you watch the movie the the shed and room are used and the the movie carries on past the shed. (i'm visualizing a western :) and the cowboys ride off. The shed was always there in static form (movie frames) and the mind experienced the room and shed only as the frames it was in were fired up by the energy of the projector.
So an assemblage point position, could be viewed as one of the cowboys, let's say Michael Nick and ric ride away. So when we were in the shed, one room was lite up, for functional use, energetically though (no bugs) three rooms existed. as per three personal AP's energizing the room.
So in this world then although holographic, let's say the shed was available on earth similar to the movie scenario, held in position by the current AP of earth. So functionally there is one earth, energetically there is as many earths as there are awareness perceiving on it (including bugs)at any moment in time.
One of CC's teachers said that the eagles emanations or made up of time, and when one is becoming acquainted with the other self one was becoming acquainted with time, or something like that.
So the complete answer to the question in my view, Is one functional shed and earth, three energetic sheds and earths experiential to those three cowboys. and thirdly an infinite number of sheds on an infinite number of earths.
We then can conjure up a view, that has depth, the earths assemblage point position is like the movie holding all potentials, in static positions and our intent can move around in those potentialities, unique to our personal energetic potentials.
This then is the answer to the questions Nick, Michaels post brought in out of me. This view if you understand/see it, no need to agree with it. Will help as I offer more, about my view.
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Then Michael you say that room does not exist separate from the mind, which was not the question i asked, but I can work with it. In my view the existence of the mind and the room are independent from one another, and remember this is just my view, I am not saying you are not correct, just different from my view.
nemo, I think what's in stake is how you define the word mind.
Certainly humanity currently is strongly attached to what is refered, lets say, as mind.
...This can be a point or no point at all.
~ Nick. ~~
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But there is explanation needed.
so, there is the path we follow we follow ..
Is it a path with heart??-
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Oh dear, you are getting tricky now Nemo. That's fine with me if this is germane to your intent.
I agree with Nik, some clarity about terms may be required.
Let me sketch a few issues arising:
1. Then Michael you say that room does not exist separate from the mind, which was not the question i asked
Well it was the question you asked, although you may not have thought so. You asked: how many rooms there were? I am saying the 'mind' is essential to the existence of any such thing we know of as a 'room'. Thus in actual final and ultimate reality, due to the impermanence of the mind, no rooms exist. This is why the Chinese used to say, "First, there is two."
2. So functionally there is one earth, energetically there is as many earths as there are awareness perceiving on it (including bugs)at any moment in time.
'Functionally' means, relating to the way a living being uses something. Meaning that we see the world according to the way we utilise the world, not according to the way the world is: our desire for utility 'skims' our perceptions and organises a subset into a pragmatic arrangement designed to give us a 'reality' aligned with our 'doing'. The day a chair becomes a 'chair', is the day we became trapped in a functional world.
Thus, it is incorrect to say, "Functionally there is one earth". Because functionality belongs to the "awareness perceiving". It is an 'energetic' AP (as you use the word 'energetic') of a being on earth. I don't think you could assume the earth itself has a functional purpose in the same way we use this term for beings who fight for survival in a savage world.
Outside the mind of a perceiver of the 'shed', which knows the functional word 'room', no such thing exists. The perceiver arranges the energetic substances before it into what we know of as a 'room': the day a room became a 'room'. I say this for a very important reason.
You speak of changing the AP of the earth, I presume for beneficial reasons and purposes. I say one should not tamper with the spiritual direction of another until one has emancipated oneself from left-brain constructs that were inculcated into us by our parents and culture. One of those is the 'room', and another is the belief that a 'room' exists outside of our left-brain perception, which has been tamed to believe that the room exists in reality.
Let me be clear about this: when you die, the earth dies, the world dies, everything you know about the universe and god dies. 'No-thing' is left in existence.
Until you have reactivated the right-hemisphere brain, you cannot know reality, and thus you are only pushing onto others your own inculcated beliefs - beliefs that were constructed by the ulterior motives of others (or hidden agendas, when it comes from women).
In DJ's terms, unless you have seen the world stop, you are a tool of the world.
3. the earths assemblage point position is like the movie holding all potentials, in static positions and our intent can move around in those potentialities, unique to our personal energetic potentials.
OK, this is the nub of your argument. Firstly, I would disagree with the word 'static' - I see no reason to add this into your argument, as it only evokes another sidetrack from your main proposition.
Otherwise, if I interpret your statement that:
a. the earth holds "all potentials", and
b. "our intent can move around in those potentials", and that this is
c. "unique" to each of us,
then yes, I concur with that. :)
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Hello
I think this is the crux>> Let me be clear about this, when you die, the earth dies, the world dies, everything you know about the universe and god dies. 'No-thing' is left in existence.
<< but can't say I 'm totaly in agreement
just me though.
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Did you know Nik, that the peoples of this world could not see the colour blue, until they had a name for it. (There is no mention of blue in the old Greek classics.) And that they didn't have a name for it until they were able to make it themselves - the Egyptians being one of the first civilisations to be able to make blue, and thus one of the first to have a name for blue.
It might also be of interest to know that a scientist who was fascinated by the history of blue, or rather its lack of history, did an experiment on his child daughter. She was incapable of calling the sky blue for some time, after having been introduced purposely late to the colour blue, although she could call many objects as blue. He speculated it was because the sky is not an object.
You also might find it interesting to know that research on those who had their sight restored after having been blind since birth, could only see a mass of colours first. Shapes came later, and distance last.
I offer this as a little example of how we construct our entire reality through a learned process. It is what we call an 'agreement'. Once your arranging capacity dies, the whole string of pearls breaks and each pearl spins off into infinity.
Dying doesn't mean everything vanishes, just everything we know and can conceive of - ie, every 'thing'. This is Brahman: that which has no attributes.
Can you name something which you cannot conceive exists?
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http://www.youtube.com/v/Naw4TQgl_Zs?rel=0
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nemo, I think what's in stake is how you define the word mind.
Certainly humanity currently is strongly attached to what is refered, lets say, as mind.
...This can be a point or no point at all.
~ Nick. ~~
Guys, I am offering my view, and I stated that it is not the same as your view. I differentiate between mind and observer. In my view the mind is part of the first attention and in a manner is responsible for the dominance of reason, over the heart. Now the heart also has a mind in my view, but is relegated to secondary position, because of the dominance of reason, in the field of action of the first attention, which is precisely where acts of aggression can be reasoned out to be the best option by some minds.
I have also stated that your beliefs are just as valid in my view, so you are not going to get and argument from me that you are wrong and I am right. That is why I a emphasizing, it is my view.
Michael I know the intent behind my question, and although it may not have been stated in a way that was clear to you as to how i meant it, anything you read by me has my view as it's primary thrust, though i do my best to see how another will take what i am saying, to avoid things being misconstrued.
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Again emphasis, I am offering my view for your perusal.
What I am trying to get at is in my view every personal assemblage point position, has a corresponding earth AP. If a being is operating in the first attention, there is a corresponding earth AP that matches it. If someone is moving away from the dominance of the first attention, the earths AP position will accommodate that intent.
If one has a belief that others have power over them this, would be part of the minds victim perpetrator energy makeup of the first attention. So when one trusts in the mind in my view, then the door is open to be manipulated, by what is presented by our fellow man, this then would be an assemblage point position supported by both the personal, and earth AP.
Michael said:
Otherwise, if I interpret your statement that:
a. the earth holds "all potentials", and
b. "our intent can move around in those potentials", and that this is
c. "unique" to each of us,
then yes, I concur with that.
Yes, a b and c, are correct, to my view, when I use the term static it is of critical importance to my view, all potentials already exist, which agrees with "b". Another way to say this is that there is only the now, all potentials exist in the now, so we can see us as either stationary observers, and time flows past us, or time is static and we move around in those static holographic frames.
Although all potentials exist, not every potential is energized/lite up by assemblage points moving around in those potentials. Time is not necessarily linear, but to the first attention time is linear, and creates a bias with it's reason to back that view.
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Michael said:
"You speak of changing the AP of the earth, I presume for beneficial reasons and purposes. I say one should not tamper with the spiritual direction of another until one has emancipated oneself from left-brain constructs that were inculcated into us by our parents and culture. One of those is the 'room', and another is the belief that a 'room' exists outside of our left-brain perception, which has been tamed to believe that the room exists in reality."
This is your belief, Michael, do not assume you can "see" me. If you like I will not offer anything further, and if you believe I am doing harm to others feel free to delete my posts.
DJ Fire From Within:
"„By all ordinary measures, you were indeed losing your mind,” he said, „but in the seers’ view, if you had lost it, you wouldn’t have lost much. The mind, for a seer, is nothing but the selfreflection of the inventory of man. If you lose that selfreflection, but don’t lose your underpinnings, you actually live an infinitely stronger life than if you had kept it.”
He remarked that my flaw was my emotional reaction, which prevented me from realizing that the oddity of my sensorial experiences was determined by the depth to which my assemblage point had moved into man’s band of emanations."
(nemo) Room which is a term used by the tonal to describe emanations of the eagle, There is no world of objects there are only the eagles emanations in my view. The belief you have that they end at death is not my view, and my description is not that of the first attention.
Florinda The Eagles Gift:
Florinda explained that when she or her peers talked about time, they were not referring to something which is measured by the movement of a clock. Time is the essence of attention. The Eagle's emanations are made out of time, and properly, when one enters into any aspect of the other self, one is becoming acquainted with time.
Wheel of Time:
Warriors say that we think there is a world of objects out there only because of our awareness. But what's really out there are the Eagle's emanations, fluid, forever in motion, and yet unchanged, eternal.
(nemo) I knew before I started offering my view, that it was not in agreement with what you had stated Michael. I am also very cognizant of the fact that beliefs are an important aspect to everyone's experiential reality. I post these excerpts from CC's books to point out that what they say are in alignment with my presentations. There is not one fixed past as there is no fixed future. There are colours that exist as part of the eagles emanations that are not part of the AP of this particular point in time on earth, but earth outside of this time, has colours not available now. In my view ;)
a
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No need to take your bat and ball home Nemo. I am giving a view of principle, not specific to you. You are correct, I cannot see you, at least not yet anyway, which is why I find this interaction fascinating. So continue your exposition, and Nik and I'll respond with our automatic associations to expand the field of interest.
I haven't anything to say about your last squeals in your exposition, as I don't see anything to disagree or agree with in words - it seems a reasonable proposition, in the way you describe. By which I mean you paint a reasonable picture of how things are setup. I would be interested where you take this construct next.
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The concept of time fascinated me: in relevance with the emanations.
I 'd like your view too if you 'd like Michael about time although nemo's view was so to speak a definition very light and good-will-lively (low vacabularity capacity)
P.S. Something irrelevant perhaps:
I have come accross myself through the concept that the Eagle's emanations are made out of time, and it came to me one memory of an elephant, which may not be an actual memory but certainly popped up like that now - like a memory. :)
Sunday the 24th here now.
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All I know (not all for sure) is that these filaments are incomprehensible and mercyless sometimes..!
But time is a wild concept that comes with wild ideas. (a term used by modern teachers of the -in a good sense and sequel- new age)
I certainly enjoy our path here - ....
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Well from a fixed construct, to a description of fluid construct. Time for a musical interlude.
http://youtu.be/PD-MdiUm1_Y (http://youtu.be/PD-MdiUm1_Y)
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I call this one 'the spirit of service'
(http://imageshack.us/a/img33/3714/thespiritofservice.jpg)
It's not really a work of art that I would put into a gallery
Here 's a poem I think a friend wrote
The Tannhauser Gate (Electric Hellfire Club)
There comes a time for each of us
To make one last desperate stab at life
To search for truth among the broken dreams
But it's never found or so it seems to me
Can we break free?
Oh body electric of thee I sing
In my life I've done many things
Out of anger and frustration
Errors made in desperation
My past follows me but I'll soon be free
Is it too late to reach the Tannhser Gate?
Is there still time to cross the Siegfried Line?
Oh there's no point in living
When life's too short to live
And I'll be gone before you realize
Just how much I really have to live
Oh I've tried, Lord knows I've tried
And I found that there was nothing to find
Tell me is it too late to reach the Tannhser Gate?
Tell me is there still time to cross the Siegfried Line?
Just one more time
When people build walls instead of bridges
Their fortresses soon become their prisons
Each day I hope and pray
all these memories will be washed away
All this sadness
All this pain
Lost in time like tears in rain
Like tears in rain...
Tell me it's not too late to reach the Tannhser Gate
Tell me that there's still time to cross the Siegfried Line
Tell me that you'll wait for me at Tannhser Gate
Tell me that you'll be mine at the Siegfried Line
Tell me there's still time enough for us to try
Just one more time
Tell me it's not too late to reach the Tannhser Gate
Tell me it's not too late to reach the Tannhser Gate
Tell me there's still time enough for us to try
Just one more time
Tell me that you'll be mine
Just one more time
_______________________________________________________
Nick-
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Nemo just sent me a link to this thread, thought I might like it. I do! So even though I am late to this thread, allow me to weigh in.
Quote from: Michael on March 21, 2013, 04:52:45 AM
Is it the flag moving, or the wind?
I presume you know the answer to this old Zen story. The master's response : it is mind moving.
Yes, mind is moving, in this context. But why is mind moving and not the wind or the flag? What has led to this insight?
There is only one room. There are three minds, and in each of those minds is a separate 'room'. But then there is also a separate mind-room in the rat that lives under the floor, in flea in the wall, in the people who built the room. All these mind-rooms are only partial reflections of the actual room which exists outside the minds of all who have any contact with the real room. Michael
The idea that there is an ACTUAL room that exists or that there is a REAL room inside outside of mind or anywhere is antithetical to interdependent origination. Michael I love that you are bringing in these Buddhist insights, which I think are very pertinent, I can see that you have given this some serious consideration. How do you reconcile the actual existence of a room, of which, our minds are only giving us “partial reflections”? It is as if you are saying the room is outside of our minds is “more real” than the partial reflections. This seems contradictory to your next statement below, where first you say “No” the room cannot exist outside the mind but you do qualify that statement saying the room is just a concept.
Now the question is asked: can the room exist outside the mind? No - the very concept of 'room' is a mind concept. But that doesn't mean that there is nothing outside the mind, only that the mind has no capacity of comprehending what it doesn't know. There is definitely something there, but what it is we can't say. What we can say is that it exists while it exists, and it can shelter us from the weather and temperature. No doubt it is much more than that, but we living organisms are trapped in functionality. Michael
Now this seems to be striking closer to the heart of the matter. This is even more difficult to approach. You say, “There is definitely something there, but what it is we can't say.” In order to be clear we need to understand what we mean when we say “something is there” and what we mean by “real or actual”. For myself after digesting Buddhist concepts concerning emptiness (only one half of the equation) I was still left with “so what am I looking at?” It is not just nothing or nothingness. “What am I looking” at is a very healthy mantra worthy of being carried for at least a couple of years. Now Michael after raising such an important question you seem to go a wandering, when you say, “What we can say is, that it exists while it exists...” I am just trying to be helpful here not critical in the hope that you would take this further without getting mired again in notions that rely upon uncritical ideas of existence. Buddhism has clearly dealt with the issue of existence. But ultimately is does not take refuge in the idea that nothing exists. That which you approaching with your question cannot be clarified in terms of existence and non-existence, is or is-not etc.
Dj brings this up with Carlos when talking about the first truth of awareness. But in my opinion doesn’t take it far enough. And he leaves us with the idea that the world of objects are “really” luminous filaments. (A statement which approaches the other half of the equation.) If we are uncritical regarding this statement of DJ’s we will believe that the perceptible would of luminous filaments are actually real, that they exist in a more permanent form that the forms we conjure to represent them. (This is due to DJ’s philosophical lack concerning emptiness). This biased preference for the energetic as more real is a dead end and leads to all kinds entrapment. The bias comes from a break through though and carries a lot of weight. To penetrate the world of objects and form and perceive an energetic counterpart is quite something but if we mistakenly take these energetic perceptions to be more real in some way that the world of objects, what have we gained but an “expanded” and more complex view which is just as delusive. Theosophy is a good modern example of this. They perceive energetically and have massive inventories that just burden the observer, so adept are they at this. Their third eye so completely open on all levels of clairvoyancy and multidimensionallity. (I digress).
Thus there is an earth, outside the minds of all it's denizens. But we can't call it 'earth' except that we need some verbal reference if we wish to discuss it. The same problem exists with 'god'. As soon as you say 'god' to anyone, you are talking about completely different mind-gods. Michael
You say there is an earth outside the minds of all it’s denizens. What leads you to such a conclusion?
I know what you are getting at though. I think of a person when they go to sleep, before dreaming sets in or clear light sleep, that person is not conscious, concepts have ceased and yet another person can still see the sleeper, he is still “there”. So at that moment the sleeper has no concept of having or being a body yet it is still available to the perceptions of another. So even though conceptions have ceased for the sleeper the conceptual world in which he moved lingers in the conceptual world of others (perhaps mutual agreement), unless you think that body is real. Whew this yogacara stuff can really bend your mind.
But the whole Buddhist mind-is-everything approach can be abused. It is designed to lead one to reality, not to protect you against the murdering hoards who came over the hill and killed the Toltecs and many Buddhists, before they developed the concept of relative-reality. The same applies to Global Warming. Removing the idea of Global Warming from your mind may assist you in reaching moksha, but it won't stop the environment you live in killing you. This is why DJ spoke of co-existing in two worlds at the same time - running above the cactus with one AP and dodging them with the other. Michael
Mind only Buddhism, Yogacara and Two truths doctrine will only go so far.
But again what is the nature of the room you speak of outside the mind?
Michael can you be clearer in how you present these two truths regarding the room?
So yes the first answer would be functional and what I call first attention surface skimming, and the answer is one room, regardless how many are in it.
Then Michael you say that room does not exist separate from the mind, which was not the question i asked, but I can work with it. In my view the existence of the mind and the room are independent from one another, and remember this is just my view, I am not saying you are not correct, just different from my view. Nemo
Great stuff guys!!
In response to this, Nemo has to fragment. In his view he says the mind and the room are independent of each other. Buddhism would say they are completely interdependent. Hmmm so we are back to if a tree falls in the woods and there is no one there to hear it does it make a sound?
So the complete answer to the question in my view, Is one functional shed and earth, three energetic sheds and earths experiential to those three cowboys. and thirdly an infinite number of sheds on an infinite number of earths. Nemo
We then can conjure up a view, that has depth, the earths assemblage point position is like the movie holding all potentials, in static positions and our intent can move around in those potentialities, unique to our personal energetic potentials. Nemo
Then Michael you say that room does not exist separate from the mind, which was not the question i asked Nemo
Well it was the question you asked, although you may not have thought so. You asked: how many rooms there were? I am saying the 'mind' is essential to the existence of any such thing we know of as a 'room'. Thus in actual final and ultimate reality, due to the impermanence of the mind, no rooms exist. This is why the Chinese used to say, "First, there is two." Michael
Outside the mind of a perceiver of the 'shed', which knows the functional word 'room', no such thing exists. The perceiver arranges the energetic substances before it into what we know of as a 'room': the day a room became a 'room'. I say this for a very important reason.
Let me be clear about this: when you die, the earth dies, the world dies, everything you know about the universe and god dies. 'No-thing' is left in existence. Michael
Michael are you referring to the conceptual world that are the things of the conceptions when you say this? If so then what we “know conceptually” is very impermanent and tenuous. So what does remain after this conceptual view of reality is lost? I am speaking about the world left behind after the death of an individual and the loss of all he knows. Nemo is making the case that the eagles emanations are permanent, eternal and they outlast.
Nemo do you consider the eagles emanations eternal and if so why?
DJ Fire From Within: Nemo
"By all ordinary measures, you were indeed losing your mind,” he said, „but in the seers’ view, if you had lost it, you wouldn’t have lost much. The mind, for a seer, is nothing but the selfreflection of the inventory of man. If you lose that selfreflection, but don’t lose your underpinnings, you actually live an infinitely stronger life than if you had kept it.”
He remarked that my flaw was my emotional reaction, which prevented me from realizing that the oddity of my sensorial experiences was determined by the depth to which my assemblage point had moved into man’s band of emanations."
(nemo) Room which is a term used by the tonal to describe emanations of the eagle, There is no world of objects there are only the eagles emanations in my view. The belief you have that they end at death is not my view, and my description is not that of the first attention.
These are the parts of the thread that caught my interest :) :)
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So what does remain after this conceptual view of reality is lost? I am speaking about the world left behind after the death of an individual and the loss of all he knows.
Hello Lex, welcome to Restless Soma
Dear me, so many questions.
But I hear this one come through thematically in your post. It is a good question, and I don't answer it in any of my posts above.
I am not a Buddhist, but I do study any tradition which takes a serious look at the nature of our reality, as in the end, I aspire for the ultimate possible for a living being.
Perhaps you should read the following thread, if we are to engage with matters independently arising:
Buddhism: View, Path, Result (http://restlesssoma.com.au/restlesssoma/index.php?topic=2116.msg12322#msg12322)
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Nice picture Nik.
And interesting poem - I did see Blade Runner, but I think I was already past the target age of influence for such a film. Generational icons have to hit at the right time in our 'short' passage. I do have a sense of sadness for the plight of all youth who seek freedom, which is why I wrote my book - it is targeted to an age at which one can still change direction. After thirty, all directions are sealed in, and the rest is academic.
I call this one 'the spirit of service'
(http://imageshack.us/a/img33/3714/thespiritofservice.jpg)
It's not really a work of art that I would put into a gallery
Here 's a poem I think a friend wrote
The Tannhauser Gate (Electric Hellfire Club)
There comes a time for each of us
To make one last desperate stab at life
To search for truth among the broken dreams
But it's never found or so it seems to me
Can we break free?
Oh body electric of thee I sing
In my life I've done many things
Out of anger and frustration
Errors made in desperation
My past follows me but I'll soon be free
Is it too late to reach the Tannhser Gate?
Is there still time to cross the Siegfried Line?
Oh there's no point in living
When life's too short to live
And I'll be gone before you realize
Just how much I really have to live
Oh I've tried, Lord knows I've tried
And I found that there was nothing to find
Tell me is it too late to reach the Tannhser Gate?
Tell me is there still time to cross the Siegfried Line?
Just one more time
When people build walls instead of bridges
Their fortresses soon become their prisons
Each day I hope and pray
all these memories will be washed away
All this sadness
All this pain
Lost in time like tears in rain
Like tears in rain...
Tell me it's not too late to reach the Tannhser Gate
Tell me that there's still time to cross the Siegfried Line
Tell me that you'll wait for me at Tannhser Gate
Tell me that you'll be mine at the Siegfried Line
Tell me there's still time enough for us to try
Just one more time
Tell me it's not too late to reach the Tannhser Gate
Tell me it's not too late to reach the Tannhser Gate
Tell me there's still time enough for us to try
Just one more time
Tell me that you'll be mine
Just one more time
_______________________________________________________
Nick-
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Well from a fixed construct, to a description of fluid construct. Time for a musical interlude.
http://youtu.be/PD-MdiUm1_Y (http://youtu.be/PD-MdiUm1_Y)
It's curious to see older musicians clinging to the unkempt look. They do seem to be enjoying themselves. Unfortunately Kashmir brings me only reflections of sadness, that such a beautiful place, which I experienced before the 'troubles', I can never take my partner to without great danger - I know too much about what is happening there. Some friends of mine blithely travelled there a few years ago, in complete ignorance of suffering and danger of the place. They had a wonderful time except for the old rip-off events that can happen all over Asia: ignorance can be bliss, when you can't feel the land.
Much appreciate the affective interludes from you and Nik.
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Got one more, rather different
http://www.youtube.com/v/ImvMxXY64EU?rel=0
_
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Thx for the example of your artwork Nick, I too dabble in that medium, and Michael yes Kashmir, a have a vision of it whole and wonderful to visit in the future. We have all been subjected to lack and interference, on this planet, and when first attention beings fight over resources out of the basic need for survival the result is unpleasant for everyone, and the land they happen to trample upon.
Nemo do you consider the eagles emanations eternal and if so why?
Hi Lex, Your post has much in it that i will not address straight away, because they will make me go down some roads that will be counterproductive to the flow at this moment.
This one though i can, and it is one that I have mentioned to you before. You are an aspect of the eagle, the eagle's emanations are made out of time, and your life is a furrow of time within the reflective furrows of the eagle's emanations. Everything exists in stasis eternally before and after an assemblage point happens to energize, and move past and through them. Another way to say this is that every point in time is an assemblage point position, with a central core, "you" and reflections relevant to the the you, you believe yourself to be.
These dots ............................... existed before I typed them, and even when this form of communication is obsolete sometime in the future and these dots are not available, they will exist in the past as an assemblage point position. The idea that something comes into being and then fades away into none existence after its time is looking at reality through the eyes of the first attention, which in my view has a very incomplete grasp of the totality of the self. The key to grasping this view is that points in time, "assemblage point positions" do not come into being at the time the AP is lite up and then fade away, they are there ready to be lite up at the precise time you happen by, and remain after you have moved past.
What is funny to me is that in my view it is the mind that is actually the inhibitor to this expanded view, and once the view is grasped the mind is in a bit of a pickle. :o
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This one though i can, and it is one that I have mentioned to you before. You are an aspect of the eagle, the eagle's emanations are made out of time, and your life is a furrow of time within the reflective furrows of the eagle's emanations. Everything exists in stasis eternally before and after an assemblage point happens to energize, and move past and through them. Another way to say this is that every point in time is an assemblage point position, with a central core, "you" and reflections relevant to the the you, you believe yourself to be.
These dots ............................... existed before I typed them, and even when this form of communication is obsolete sometime in the future and these dots are not available, they will exist in the past as an assemblage point position. The idea that something comes into being and then fades away into none existence after its time is looking at reality through the eyes of the first attention, which in my view has a very incomplete grasp of the totality of the self. The key to grasping this view is that points in time, "assemblage point positions" do not come into being at the time the AP is lite up and then fade away, they are there ready to be lite up at the precise time you happen by, and remain after you have moved past.
I can follow your logic there. Can't say I necessarily agree, but I do see what you are arguing, and it is a reasonable proposition.
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Got one more, rather different
http://www.youtube.com/v/ImvMxXY64EU?rel=0
Has a strong raw feeling - good find Nik.
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Nemo, I did suggest this 'static' is not essential to your main argument, which I'm still interested to hear: about how you intend to shift the world AP.
However, seeing as you have outlined your static theory, here is my disagreement with it, just for the record.
I think you are not taking into account what AP means. "Assemblage Point": meaning it is a process of assemblage, not a static arrangement. We provide it with a sense of solidity, but in fact we are continuously assembling. This process breaks down as our mental faculty deteriorates, or we are influenced by stress, substances or lying.
Thus it's not a case of us passing through an endless set of possible APs, but rather we continuously arrange perception as we pass through an endless flux of energy, which we skim, flesh and shape with our inventory of 'known' elements. Thus we don't just assemble, we also clothe. We don't see 'known' objects, we apply our known to the essentially unknown infinitude, just like applying a style in html.
So really we never 'shift' APs, we just re-assemble differently. We call it a shift, but that is just our known self trying to keep pace with the game. This then would have implications on how to affect APs of others as well as ourselves. It's more about adding elements in than pushing something sideways. The idea of pushing sideways has power because we use that image as a tool for our will, in which case it has some practical power, but that doesn't mean it's what is really happening.
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Michael, Yes your view is one I am aware of and I did pass through that view, and because it would be incorrect for me to present my view as the only possible working view of how reality is set up, I must refrain from saying that what you say is wrong, it is not. What you believe is very important to ones experience, though.
I will tie all the elements together, shortly, it's not something I have put down in words before so, I am flying by the seat of my pants. How this relates to the assemblage point of the earth, and the personal assemblage point position and how that relates to static, will take a post that I am working on as a word document at the moment.
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However, seeing as you have outlined your static theory, here is my disagreement with it, just for the record.
I think you are not taking into account what AP means. "Assemblage Point": meaning it is a process of assemblage, not a static arrangement. We provide it with a sense of solidity, but in fact we are continuously assembling. This process breaks down as our mental faculty deteriorates, or we are influenced by stress, substances or lying.
Reread your post, and wish to reveal a little in response. In my view it is an inherent, part of the first attention view that we grow old and we loose our mental faculty, and yes it is time and a few causes that can hurry this up. This is also part of what has been trained into us. The intent of the double is not as subject to those assemblage point positions, I will do my best to show the difference in the intent available, to different views and attention levels. Also the assemblage point position, in my description does not loose the ability to assemble, it can draw from infinity itself any item from and infinity of items available in the next frame, we are used to movies being linear, as we are used to our experience being linear, but this is part of the world created by the first attention/mind/reason creation.
I know it's kinda aggravating having me spout off about my view, and as you read a part that you wish to comment on it, will be done from the position you already hold and are familiar with. Soon I will be finished and I will be more than happy to joust over specifics if anyone wishes.
A Separate Reality:
"You mentioned once," don Juan began, "that a friend of yours had said, when the two of you saw a leaf falling from the very top of a sycamore, that that same leaf will not fall again from that same sycamore ever in a whole eternity, remember?"
I remembered having told him about that incident.
"We are at the foot of a large tree," he continued, "and now if we look at that other tree in front of us we may see a leaf falling from the very top."
He signaled me to look. There was a large tree on the other side of the gully; its leaves were yellowish and dry. He urged me with a movement of his head to keep on looking at the tree. After a few minutes wait, a leaf cracked loose from the top and began falling to the ground; it hit other leaves and branches three times before it landed in the tall underbrush.
"Did you see it?"
"Yes."
"You would say that the same leaf will never again fall from that same tree, true?"
"True."
"To the best of your understanding that is true. But that is only to the best of your understanding. Look again."
I automatically looked and saw a leaf falling. It actually hit the same leaves and branches as the previous one. It was as if I were looking at an instant television replay. I followed the wavy falling of the leaf until it landed on the ground. I stood up to find out if there were two leaves, but the tall underbrush around the tree prevented me from seeing where the leaf had actually landed.
Don Juan laughed and told me to sit down.
"Look," he said, pointing with his head to the top of the tree. "There goes the same leaf again."
I once more saw a leaf falling in exactly the same pattern as the previous two.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-emEaWEi0U9w/TnCHDrO81QI/AAAAAAAACkU/L7vHBJnns_I/s1600/Air+is+nature+tree+leaves....3D+Gif+Animation+Free+Download+Blog+Tree+With+Leaves+Falling+free+clip+art%252C+fall++leaf+tree+cartoon++free+trees+plant+falling+leaves+autumn+season+autum..gif)
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It's not aggravating Nemo. In fact it's a pleasant diversion from my other tasks.
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Okay good ;D May I have permission to make a link to a post in another forum that will save me some work? A cut and past will not work, as well because it is colorized?
I don't understand what you want nemo, given all the replies below (maybe my seeing is not very sharp now)
You want to make a link to post it here or you want to post a text / post from here elesewhere ?
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This thread taking route other than love
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LQhamwJcVY
Not that I am not the culprit.
:)
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Nice groove piece Nik.
This thread has never been about love, to my knowledge.
It fired up about nemo's desire to shift the earth's AP, then segued into a philosophical discussion on the nature of the 3rd attention.
I did read nemo's transcripts, and although curious from a philosophical debate point-of-view, I did not see anything calling for my comment. I enjoy some speculation of the 'big picture' but, ultimately for me, it has to translate directly into a practical application. My approach is one of application - I like it centred in a philosophical intent, as that has to do with exercising the mythical quadrant of our being, but to solidify into our being, it has to be accompanied with a pragmatic task that I can employ through my day or night.
As nemo is taking time to arrange his thoughts around this shifting AP aspiration, I'll add something about APs from my own perspective.
I have always had an interest in shifting the global human AP for two groups.
The first, and most important, is those who aspire to personal freedom, in a special interpretation of that word. Popular concepts of freedom only have relevance for those who are seeking to escape excessive and violent entrapment situations, of which there are millions across the world. For the armchair middle-class aspirants to freedom, it is pure fantasy. But for a very select few, the concept of freedom is a real and mystical goal of escaping the claw and tooth of death, in the most sophisticated way imaginable - the clan of ultimate audacity. It is these people who are dedicated to quietly erasing themselves from the popular conventions, to sneak off in a totally different direction about which modern humanity know nothing except by way of names on holiday resort apartments.
The second, is the global human species itself. This is the world through which I am only "passing through" as the old song goes. I am not silly enough to think the culture in which I spent my formative years, did not represent a complex of opportunities critical to my current direction. I can't help but feel some yearning to play even a small role in addressing the catastrophe I watch approaching for our species, on both a physical and spiritual level.
In my younger days, I had grand ideas of how to influence humanity efficaciously. I now see those were only dreams, and yet, they were good dreams! But the world is under a trajectory driven by forces far more powerful than I. Doesn't mean I can't offer my small piece in the battle, but it does mean I can not afford to jeopardise my ultimate quest for the sake of the human race. Precisely because my path leads irreversibly away from the common fate of humanity. I only have so much time: I offer my 'elements', then I must go my own way. The fact that few take any notice of what I have seen, and even fewer can translate that into an effective force in their life, is a regret for me, but not one that, because of, I can deflect my momentum. That would be tantamount to deceiving both myself and those whom I seek to assist.
There is spoken of, the five channels of liberation. Some of which cycle back into service of humanity, or of greater collectives. For myself, I can't see those channels attracting. I am far too much of an experiential adventurer. My channel is the one which winds quietly off into the unknown. I yearn to 'go beyond', and never return. I somehow lack the instinctive love of my own species that so many of my day time associates take for granted. I have no desire to cycle back into 'the family', and I am very comfortable with the prospect of dying alone - in fact, I'm rather horrified at the thought of being surrounded by clinging humans while I'm trying to set my main sail.
Poor young Jimmy Fletcher never got there in his life, but by God he knew about it:
We are the Pilgrims, master; we shall go
Always a little further: it may be
Beyond that last blue mountain barred with snow,
Across that angry or that glimmering sea,
White on a throne or guarded in a cave
There lives a prophet who can understand
Why men were born: but surely we are brave,
Who take the Golden Road to Samarkand.
Sweet to ride forth at evening from the wells
When shadows pass gigantic on the sand,
And softly through the silence beat the bells
Along the Golden Road to Samarkand.
We travel not for trafficking alone;
By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned:
For lust of knowing what should not be known
We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.
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I listen carefuly,
I see myself as well many adversary forces this time in history...
though I cannot easily believe or disbelieve about a catastrophe.
Channels say there is gonna be a golden age, maybe after many years and an event like a catastrophe...
I 'm taking a lonely way myself as well.
Maybe you 're acting as an adversary mirror for the catastrophe (not to come).
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I believe noone actualy knows, that's why it is a shaking (as of dance) mystery.
If we would choose to believe... ermm... if I 'd choose to believe something about manhood I would believe something good.
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(plus)
I can see your predilection, my predilection is somehow involving coffee
+ the unknown .
And nice poem although I think it's more apt to you.
Nik
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I kinda like that it's in the love section.
I read your post Michael, you seem to be putting me in a box, that box is your inventory working against a new view. For me what I am offering I suppose could be categorized as philosophy and even a reasonable conjecture, and whatever western terms there are for putting something forward about existence or how things work. From my perspective what I am offering is direct seeing, of a different cognitive view, which I am mapping, using familiar terms. It is only a view, yes, but one from seeing.
Mapping attention levels
There is available to man, attainment of attention levels, with every bump up comes an accompanying, view and relationship with intent. All views are correct, because that view has a hand in the creation of the experience.
The first attention has an intent that is very recognizable, but it is not recognizable when you are in it's clutches, and to see it one needs to have moved past it, dropped it. This first attention view sees the shed as one shed and three people. Has an active internal dialogue and makes up it's reality in a manner of speaking unconsciously.
The second attention is aware of it's luminous nature and will start to act and behave in a way that sees themselves as a bubble of perception, and would experience and see the shed and three individuals spinning their separate perspectives of the shed. They have a less active internal dialogue and experience the currents of energy fluctuations of the soft body/energy body. Focus would be on developing the double and bring the timeline memories of the first attention into the energetic realm.
The attention level attained beyond that of the second attention, is unique from the other two. This attention has the facility to see energy directly with little to no internal dialogue. The shed would be seen as one of an infinite number of sheds and the other two beings would be seen as reflections of themselves. The integration of the energy body and its intent, manifest in the material realm.
Moving the Assemblage Point of the Earth
As in Gandhi's case an alignment of intent in the first attention can be seen as a social movement. This first attention can and will have a relationship with intent that sees one earth, and many beings on it.
Second attention would see themselves as a luminous bubble, and would work with their fluid individual assemblage point, but would refrain from social movements and would not be aware of the totality of the self. Focus would be on personal movement of assemblage point to positions in dreaming.
The next attention would see itself as all the emanations in each static frame, no part separate, and in this way engage their will to move the whole being down timelines (furrows of time) away from intent that is contaminated by the bias of the other two attentions.
Note: Have reduced it down, significantly, but in short this is the view. Basically there is an assemblage point of earth unique to every one being choosing to be in this particular cluster of emanations. It is only the active engagement of the intent of the double that enables one to have the power to move the assemblage point of the earth.
A singularity with the power of the whole.
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Thanks for posting again nemo.
I kind of appreciate this whole thing much.
I don't see it as philosophical... only the Earth notions confuse me a little as parts I can't fully understand and realise.
But... seems like everyone is on it's own in the end...so... nothing, just things make sense.
~
N.V.-
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Basically there is an assemblage point of earth unique to every one being
You will need to expand on this a little, as I can't see how it connects to what you outlined before.
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though I cannot easily believe or disbelieve about a catastrophe.
Thought you were in Greece Nik?
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You will need to expand on this a little, as I can't see how it connects to what you outlined before.
If you change yourself the world will change along with you. Each static frame carries intent from the previous frames which carry a thrust of energy into the current experiential frame. Those frames can be as expansive as infinity itself, or narrowed down in focus "toes" If your self reflection fires up all the emanations available in one static frame, then it is free from the past static frames. If a being is strongly attached to static frames of the past they will solidify those past frames into the now. If that same being is attached to a future point in time "something like retirement or death" the emanations at large will accommodate that intent. So every moment counts as we bring ourselves to the next frame, thus each awareness being the center of each reflective furrow ether expanded or narrow will reflect to itself what it is.
Remember there is only a world at large as a description, the shed and earth are the same thing, just emanations at large, they are just descriptions of something unfathomable. When I use the term world, it lives in the backdrop of infinity, the same exact backdrop the shed has. You are assembling that point in time and the power to move the assemblage point of earth to more suitable locations in time are just reflections of other emanations available to each individual as they move along reflective furrows, available to each one singularly. Any other view other than one reflecting infinity creates a fixed construct, infinity is fluid no fixed reflected past and thus creates no fixed reflective future in time.
So to consciously create a world in which the reflection is pleasing such as going to Kashmir again with a partner, would require the ability to move down furrows of time where the reflection there is free from contaminants. What can make the self reflective bubble of the whole world free of contaminants is another expanded topic, but at its core is either we create knowingly with complete knowledge, or we create unconsciously with incomplete knowledge.
When dreaming, we are not restricted to having the same fixed static frames, meaning the world is very fluid, the ground we are walking on may end just past our perceptual field. To see the possibilities available to each moment in time, wherever you are requires the fluidity of the energetic with the stability of the material, to reflect a whole complete self reflection, one needs the intent and energy available from the double, but the double does not comprehend in the same way as a singularity, and that is why DJ stipulates that the tonal should not completely taken out of the picture.
Only a centered balanced complete being, can handle the intent of the double, and the intent to move the assemblage point of earth, is there in the intent of the double.
Michael said:
"In this forum, we do not set out to obstruct the private me. There is every good reason for the healthy growth of the private me. But the forum is what it is, and that means every member eventually finds themselves before a struggle between the private me and the double. Some succeeded in this struggle, whereby their private me came to the realisation that they were not the only ruler of their destiny, and thus arrived at a constructive sharing of power with this elusive being, the double. They were the small minority, and they moved on to their next phase of growth in which a close partnership with the double became the core of their path."
YES
Michael also said:
"The idea I quoted from you above is an aspect of the new shift in the global human AP. It has political backing from the 'right', because it is basically telling people they have no need to feel in any way inferior: they are perfect exactly how they are, no matter how unhealthy, unfit, obese, poor or uneducated they are. This is a conscious manoeuvre by the 'right' to trick the population into compliance, while the wealthy rip them off. It is not by chance - it is part of a very complex and cleverly worked out strategy.
(nemo) On my path, I reached a point of knowing that I was being manipulated, and part of freeing myself from that manipulation, was to become keenly aware of when I was being manipulated and when I was being manipulative. Everyone has a double, our doubles are connected to everything else in a more direct way, when we engage the intent of the double we then have far reaching energetic undercurrents available to affect those controllers in a most inexplicable way. I see the effects of this in a variety of ways in my own personal experiences, that's why I speak with a knowing, a seeing for whomever is ready to hear.
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Thought you were in Greece Nik?
I 'm in Greece here, in a place called lycovrici which means wolfpond, in Athens.
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I see myself as well many adversary forces this time in history...
though I cannot easily believe or disbelieve about a catastrophe.
Talking about a total catastrophe, physical as well as spiritual (which it translates to mental for the average man and woman (?)) as you say?
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I 'm in Greece here, in a place called lycovrici which means wolfpond, in Athens.
I would have thought Greece was going through a catastrophe right now. You don't need to look very far to see the fragility of our world.
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I would have thought Greece was going through a catastrophe right now. You don't need to look very far to see the fragility of our world.
You can say so.
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This is a lecture i recommend, at the end Krauss talks about infinity a bit, and at the beginning he talks about static in terms of the universe. Science seems to have proven that the universe is not static, though I maintain that each frame is static. The movement through them is the dynamic part.
"A Universe From Nothing" - Lawrence Krauss, Richard Dawkins
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EjaGktVQdNg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EjaGktVQdNg)
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Bravo nemo! This is the clearest post you have made on this thread re your main argument. And very well written (you wrote it yourself?) - good stuff.
I am beginning to grasp where you are coming from with this earth AP thing.
I'll get back about some followup questions and discussion (holding a belated birthday party today, then Dr Who is on tonight, and later, the Tour of Flanders, so it might not be till tomorrow :) )
If you change yourself the world will change along with you. Each static frame carries intent from the previous frames which carry a thrust of energy into the current experiential frame. Those frames can be as expansive as infinity itself, or narrowed down in focus "toes" If your self reflection fires up all the emanations available in one static frame, then it is free from the past static frames. If a being is strongly attached to static frames of the past they will solidify those past frames into the now. If that same being is attached to a future point in time "something like retirement or death" the emanations at large will accommodate that intent. So every moment counts as we bring ourselves to the next frame, thus each awareness being the center of each reflective furrow ether expanded or narrow will reflect to itself what it is.
Remember there is only a world at large as a description, the shed and earth are the same thing, just emanations at large, they are just descriptions of something unfathomable. When I use the term world, it lives in the backdrop of infinity, the same exact backdrop the shed has. You are assembling that point in time and the power to move the assemblage point of earth to more suitable locations in time are just reflections of other emanations available to each individual as they move along reflective furrows, available to each one singularly. Any other view other than one reflecting infinity creates a fixed construct, infinity is fluid no fixed reflected past and thus creates no fixed reflective future in time.
So to consciously create a world in which the reflection is pleasing such as going to Kashmir again with a partner, would require the ability to move down furrows of time where the reflection there is free from contaminants. What can make the self reflective bubble of the whole world free of contaminants is another expanded topic, but at its core is either we create knowingly with complete knowledge, or we create unconsciously with incomplete knowledge.
When dreaming, we are not restricted to having the same fixed static frames, meaning the world is very fluid, the ground we are walking on may end just past our perceptual field. To see the possibilities available to each moment in time, wherever you are requires the fluidity of the energetic with the stability of the material, to reflect a whole complete self reflection, one needs the intent and energy available from the double, but the double does not comprehend in the same way as a singularity, and that is why DJ stipulates that the tonal should not completely taken out of the picture.
Only a centered balanced complete being, can handle the intent of the double, and the intent to move the assemblage point of earth, is there in the intent of the double.
Michael said:
"In this forum, we do not set out to obstruct the private me. There is every good reason for the healthy growth of the private me. But the forum is what it is, and that means every member eventually finds themselves before a struggle between the private me and the double. Some succeeded in this struggle, whereby their private me came to the realisation that they were not the only ruler of their destiny, and thus arrived at a constructive sharing of power with this elusive being, the double. They were the small minority, and they moved on to their next phase of growth in which a close partnership with the double became the core of their path."
YES
Michael also said:
"The idea I quoted from you above is an aspect of the new shift in the global human AP. It has political backing from the 'right', because it is basically telling people they have no need to feel in any way inferior: they are perfect exactly how they are, no matter how unhealthy, unfit, obese, poor or uneducated they are. This is a conscious manoeuvre by the 'right' to trick the population into compliance, while the wealthy rip them off. It is not by chance - it is part of a very complex and cleverly worked out strategy.
(nemo) On my path, I reached a point of knowing that I was being manipulated, and part of freeing myself from that manipulation, was to become keenly aware of when I was being manipulated and when I was being manipulative. Everyone has a double, our doubles are connected to everything else in a more direct way, when we engage the intent of the double we then have far reaching energetic undercurrents available to affect those controllers in a most inexplicable way. I see the effects of this in a variety of ways in my own personal experiences, that's why I speak with a knowing, a seeing for whomever is ready to hear.
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If you change yourself the world will change along with you. Each static frame carries intent from the previous frames which carry a thrust of energy into the current experiential frame. Those frames can be as expansive as infinity itself, or narrowed down in focus "toes" If your self reflection fires up all the emanations available in one static frame, then it is free from the past static frames. If a being is strongly attached to static frames of the past they will solidify those past frames into the now. If that same being is attached to a future point in time "something like retirement or death" the emanations at large will accommodate that intent. So every moment counts as we bring ourselves to the next frame, thus each awareness being the center of each reflective furrow ether expanded or narrow will reflect to itself what it is.
I see a danger in this view, that it implies a one-sided navigational process. "If you change yourself the world will change along with you." We don't need to look very far to see the truth of this - there are ample examples in everyone's life.
"If that same being is attached to a future point in time "something like retirement or death" the emanations at large will accommodate that intent." I can agree with the idea that the emanations at large will 'accommodate' that intent, but the danger is precisely the one Don Juan spoke of when describing how a sorcerer begins to feel s/he can 'command'. He put this down as another false and dangerous view. Because with deeper insight, it becomes obvious that no matter how powerful we become, the sense that we can mould the emanations to our will simply by changing our perceptual position, fails to take into account three important aspects.
Firstly, that we are dealing with another force coming towards us - we can change the dynamics, but we can't predict the consequences of that change: there is still an unfathomable other side to the game. At best we can dance with fate: we have the power to change the set direction of our self-fulling path, but what that changes to is not completely under our control. There are times, as DJ said, where we believe we can shape the present to whatever we wish. But this is an illusion DJ said had trapped many on the path of knowledge - a more sober view sees it as a partnership, with the unpredictable always a delightful element.
Secondly, as we move deeper, again as DJ pointed out, we eventually come to see that despite all our achievements in self-fashioning our moment, we are ultimately completely out of control. The Eagle has only ever been playing with us, and finally, we realise it holds every card.
Thirdly, as we mature in this relationship with the emanations-at-large, we come to acknowledge there has to be a fundamental trust that once we align with them, we trust they will lead us to a goal we truly need, rather than one to which we imagine or aspire. The consequence of this maturation of relationship (which takes a very long time to establish) is seen in the attitude of so many sages of all traditions, that they use their command-power in the service of others, but never for themselves. Because they realise they already have the best deal going - trusting fully the Spirit will hold to the covenant, so long as they hold to their side, and don't try to worship false gods, like superannuation or other fear-induced protections which rob us of our fluidity. Best expressed by old Willy himself:
"He who binds to himself a joy Does the winged life destroy;
But he who kisses the joy as it flies Lives in eternity's sun rise."
Yet this position cannot be simply jumped to from the starting point - it can only come after one has traversed the landscape of understanding exactly how "If you change yourself the world will change along with you" actually works in all it's endless complexity and simplicity.
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In your earlier post Michael you said you were starting to get what I was saying. The emphasis in this post seems to be based on the view that my view is all about me, so I will answer to your concerns, but they lead me to think that I still have some splaining to do.
Michael can you show me which quote or quotes, you base your DJ warnings on a dangerous view. I am familiar with some warnings, but if it is spoken of directly with the words you are using, and then relating to what I am saying is dangerous, I would like to know where you are getting that from. I know there are many pitfalls along the way, and self importance being one of them, but I say there is just as grave a danger then in feelings of inadequacy and unworthiness, which is just as debilitating to connection with spirit, and is systematically instilled in us by the controllers also, but from the left.
There is a natural barrier energetically to the use of the intent of the double, and the failsafe is the singularity has given control of decisions to the heart. I believe you know this though so I will post something relevant that DJ said about the mastery of intent.
DJ, Fire from Within:
„It will be a long time before you can apply the principle that your command is the Eagle’s command,” he said. „That’s the essence of the mastery of intent.
Michael said:
Firstly, that we are dealing with another force coming towards us - we can change the dynamics, but we can't predict the consequences of that change: there is still an unfathomable other side to the game. At best we can dance with fate: we have the power to change the set direction of our self-fulling path, but what that changes to is not completely under our control. There are times, as DJ said, where we believe we can shape the present to whatever we wish. But this is an illusion DJ said had trapped many on the path of knowledge - a more sober view sees it as a partnership, with the unpredictable always a delightful element.
I am almost in agreement with this first point, the use of the term consequences puts a negative spin on what may come though. With the view forward and spirit in hand we have greater say and can put our mark on what is to come. The example I gave earlier, of the same leaf falling from the tree, was a prediction of what was to come, the element that was not predictable was CC.
Secondly, as we move deeper, again as DJ pointed out, we eventually come to see that despite all our achievements in self-fashioning our moment, we are ultimately completely out of control. The Eagle has only ever been playing with us, and finally, we realise it holds every card.
To me this is a second attention view, I play just as much with the eagle as it plays with me. The point of view expressed here is that the intent of the double is not something that can be utilized, and lingering in the words is the death of the being and it having been used in the end of it all. In my view the eagle is reflected in us, we are an aspect of the eagle, and when we are centered is neither benevolent or malevolent.
Thirdly, as we mature in this relationship with the emanations-at-large, we come to acknowledge there has to be a fundamental trust that once we align with them, we trust they will lead us to a goal we truly need, rather than one to which we imagine or aspire. The consequence of this maturation of relationship (which takes a very long time to establish) is seen in the attitude of so many sages of all traditions, that they use their command-power in the service of others, but never for themselves. Because they realise they already have the best deal going - trusting fully the Spirit will hold to the covenant, so long as they hold to their side, and don't try to worship false gods, like superannuation or other fear-induced protections which rob us of our fluidity.
Hmm, Although I see your point here, not sure why you are stressing service to others, service to others can be from a very self important assemblage point position. Moving the assemblage point earth to timelines free of control from the elite was not in the realm of sages, and would service seven billion people, and and every other living being on the planet, and would not be so bad for the self also.
I get the feeling in this last post that you are making a statement of where you are at, and like a said this is your view, and I see and like your view. If it is a comment on something worrisome you see in my view, that you say you are starting to see, maybe we should wait a while so my view sinks in a little more. In other words these points of yours are not reflecting to me an understanding of my view.
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I get the feeling in this last post that you are making a statement of where you are at, and like a said this is your view, and I see and like your view. If it is a comment on something worrisome you see in my view, that you say you are starting to see, maybe we should wait a while so my view sinks in a little more. In other words these points of yours are not reflecting to me an understanding of my view.
Correct. I think we should clarify the process here. You say something, I may inquire of further clarity, but I may also simply reply with automatic associations of my own view. This thread is not just about your view, it is an opportunity for any member to offer whatever insights they have. When you think I am prescribing you into some position you feel uncomfortable with, that is because you are reading my comments as a direct compartmentalisation of you. This is not the case. This thread is a discussion of shared insights, some of which are in mutual agreement, some not, and some not only due to angle of approach such as your description of the fluidity of infinity above.
Thus when I say there is a 'danger' in a view, it doesn't mean you are adopting a dangerous practice. It is a general discussion of the complexity and history of certain views that have been revealed by seers across the ages. In other words, don't take my comments personally.
In the last post of mine, I was digressing from the main inquiry I have been following with you: to understand how you see the earth's AP. I was taking time out to explain something that arises out of your post which is relevant to how people navigate the path. In other words, I was elaborating on an opportunity you offered me, to speak of something from my view.
A proper conversation on understandings, is a dynamic process. It is not just a stage for one person to explain something which they have predetermined they must 'get out'. Books and Blogs are for that. A forum conversation evolves, with a mix of new directions and some consistency of theme.
You asked me about DJ's words. I was referring to some things said, but then explaining them in my own words, from my own experience. This is something we all must do on this path. I feel somewhat tired of discussions on other forums where people throw quotes back and forth as if they are inviolable icons, instead of going deeper into one's own experience and coming back with one's own words. Anyway, for the record, here is the quote upon which I bassed my reference:
And thus he will have overcome his second enemy, and will arrive at a position where nothing can harm him anymore. This will not be a mistake. It will not be only a point before his eyes. It will be true power.
He will know at this point that the power he has been pursuing for so long is finally his. He can do with it whatever he pleases. His ally is at his command. His wish is the rule. He sees all that is around him. But he has also come across his third enemy: Power!
Power is the strongest of all enemies. And naturally the easiest thing to do is to give in; after all, the man is truly invincible. He commands; he begins by taking calculated risks, and ends in making rules, because he is a master.
A man at this stage hardly notices his third enemy closing in on him. And suddenly, without knowing, he will certainly have lost the battle. His enemy will have turned him into a cruel, capricious man, but he will never lose his clarity or his power.
A man who is defeated by power dies without really knowing how to handle it. Power is only a burden upon his fate. Such a man has no command over himself, and cannot tell when or how to use his power.
Once one of these enemies overpowers a man there is nothing he can do. It is not possible, for instance, that a man who is defeated by power may see his error and mend his ways. Once a man gives in he is through. If, however, he is temporarily blinded by power, and then refuses it, his battle is still on. That means he is still trying to become a man of knowledge. A man is defeated only when he no longer tries, and abandons himself.
He has to come to realize that the power he has seemingly conquered is in reality never his. He must keep himself in line at all times, handling carefully and faithfully all that he has learned. If he can see that clarity and power, without his control over himself, are worse than mistakes, he will reach a point where everything is held in check. He will know then when and how to use his power. And thus he will have defeated his third enemy.
But I went further than this, explaining the process of how we on the path handle the knowledge of our power, once it has been experienced. The idea of applying power in service to others has nothing to do about whether we should be involved in 'service': "not sure why you are stressing service to others". It had to do with the experience of practitioners who 'help' others in a way they would never do for themselves. It is about trust, not service.
Perhaps I could recommend something to you nemo. When you read my words, avoid any 'emotive' words which I add in for the sake of colour. And ignore any inferences you feel are an attempt to 'box' you, define you, or relegate you to some inferior position. Ignore all that, and read the post again, trying to understand that I am pointing, from out of your train carriage, at some fascinating features of the countryside through which we are passing.
However, be that all as it may. I still wish to get back to the earth's AP.
The best approach I can think of just now, which may or may not accord with what you are saying, comes from the Australian Aboriginals. They used to hold what were called 'increase ceremonies'. They held the view that these ceremonies were not just for their own personal development, but also for the benefit of the entire earth - on every land in this earth, not just the Australian continent. This implied an realisation that their spiritual progress was essential to the earth as a whole, not just themselves.
A similar view was put by Rudolf Steiner back in early last century, when it became popular to believe the earth would be better off without humanity. This view you still hear today. He disagreed. He said that humanity played a crucial role in the evolutionary path of the earth itself, and that our correct positioning in the overall scheme of earth's creatures, was our role in the earth's development.
Another example, is Gurdjieff's view that what he was setting up in his various 'Institutes', was actually a machine for the beneficial service to the earth's evolutionary path. Speaking of service, he was one to hold this very highly, and above all he believed in the role of spiritual development as a service to the earth itself. He was extremely scathing (personally) of anyone who sought any form of personal salvation. The mark of real man, as he would put it, was to devote oneself to higher attainment because it was the energy given off by that struggle which the earth fed off for it's journey. He believed one had to submit to a purpose outside oneself.
I know those examples are nothing about what you are talking about, but I offer them as my own automatic associations when you speak of "If you change yourself the world will change along with you", in the hope they might give a fillip to your own continuing explanations of what you see. (I should add that these examples I give do not accord with my own view on the matter, but I do like them.)
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My intent was to offer my view as best I could, and I believe that has been accomplished. I have established that we all carry a relevant view as we move through our personal furrows of time. Also described is how personal the assemblage point position of the earth is to each individual, and tied that into how our doubles are involved, all within the backdrop of infinity, and that infinity materially exists in static frames of time, and the role of intent within that complete view.
Your right I am a little confused by your offerings and I am unclear as to how to respond. I will be looking for points that address my general terms above specifically. If they do not, then I will consider you speaking about your view, and addressing it to others who may come and read this thread.
If you want my take on people like Gurdjieff of Stiener then ask me directly, that you wish my comment. This will keep things from getting screwy. Of course my love to my brothers who know the silent part of man and dance on this earth, in the old ways.
(http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1890/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1890-53583.jpg)
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Secondly, as we move deeper, again as DJ pointed out, we eventually come to see that despite all our achievements in self-fashioning our moment, we are ultimately completely out of control. The Eagle has only ever been playing with us, and finally, we realise it holds every card.
-Michael
To me this is a second attention view, I play just as much with the eagle as it plays with me. The point of view expressed here is that the intent of the double is not something that can be utilized, and lingering in the words is the death of the being and it having been used in the end of it all. In my view the eagle is reflected in us, we are an aspect of the eagle, and when we are centered is neither benevolent or malevolent.
Forgive me for my interuption here.
I have come across a testimony that said that when you die the Eagle re-inserts you back to life.
What do you think/make about this?
P.S. In my experience Eagle is not something belevolent (for one because He uses its orders and as beings of freedom... obeying must occur , which is not a benevolent thing in my book.
On a sencond not, in my experience at least; it doesn't matter how centered you are, the consmic forces always so we speak- find a point to "pierce you through". That's what in my knowlwdege is an attermonous challenge.
Battle
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By all means Nikosv, this is your thread after all.
In my view the eagle reflects back to you what you are, if you die, then you are a being that lived a reflective furrow that ended in death. Then the singularity known by you as Nikosv, would fade and the observer, free of the singular self reflective identity would enter another furrow in time or not.
This benevolent bit is a reflection is it not? I stated that the furrow reflects to you what you are, and that reflection changes with the attention level attained and maintained. I suppose the common view is that there is something out there effecting our senses, but what is interacting with us boils down eventually to a view. Something is either outside of us or not, which in my view can be resolved by the view one takes.
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Forgive me for my interuption here.
Forgiveness is for Christians Nik. No need for that here - you say what you want and say it loud!
Shine your spirit (Battle).
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My intent was to offer my view as best I could, and I believe that has been accomplished.
Yes it has ... somewhat.
Nemo, to reach the other side of the Uncanny Valley of Spirit, you have to be a RACER!
Set caution to the wind and run like fire.
Let me ask you, having presented your intent so thoroughly, what graphic image would you used as symbol of this intent?
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Nik, for my take on your question, let me pick some choice bits from Nemo:
In my view the eagle reflects back to you what you are, if you die, then you are a being that lived a reflective furrow that ended in death. Then the singularity known by you as Nikosv, would fade...
This benevolent bit is a reflection is it not?
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Nik, for my take on your question, let me pick some choice bits from Nemo:
In my view the eagle reflects back to you what you are, if you die, then you are a being that lived a reflective furrow that ended in death. Then the singularity known by you as Nikosv, would fade...
This benevolent bit is a reflection is it not?
Ha ha
.....
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Forgiveness is for Christians Nik. No need for that here - you say what you want and say it loud!
Shine your spirit (Battle).
Well, you seem to were having a discussion. I wouldn't like to interupt a discussion with/for another subject.
That's just me. You have to accept me!
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(http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image//9eb36da46224bcdaeded5772714104c763d93e39_a.png)
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(http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image//9eb36da46224bcdaeded5772714104c763d93e39_a.png)
Nice choice nemo!
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The Holy Grail
http://youtu.be/rAaWvVFERVA
(http://www.returnofthechrist.org.uk/images/chalice-web.jpg)
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The Holy Hand Grenade
http://youtu.be/xOrgLj9lOwk
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2611/3989016218_7af1c6e67b.jpg)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggqnoedaJug
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Don Juan said to Carlos that seeking freedom is the only driving force he know - knew .
I 've found myself today in the same 'position'
The idea of freedom.There is nothing else. Even though I proceed with -as the quote from Catsaneda book continued- ... being like a flame of a candle or a candle myself - humbleness taking a wild lead in my ...life, and most of the times the fog of the battle is so thick, the idea , dream and wish for freedom ...remains.
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Michael Said:
Nemo, to reach the other side of the Uncanny Valley of Spirit, you have to be a RACER!
Set caution to the wind and run like fire.
I guess this was directed at me, and I hesitated answering it because my reply to it could be deemed aggressive, but it is not meant to be. As Nickosv said he wishes freedom, and in my view freedom is not around the corner somewhere, or in some deep recess of dreaming. It is up close and personal, so in answer to you statement Michael, I do not have to be anything.
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Please, be as aggressive as you like nemo - it's good for the soul.
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In
Response
To the private me making room for the "double"
I see it "now"
as two fly close to the sun
When one is listening and learns to fly this way
Another may reach across from height
as two fly so closely
Can one distinguish whos me
Is using completion
As one drifts apart always remembering
Do two ever become two or one one
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My intent was to offer my view as best I could, and I believe that has been accomplished. I have established that we all carry a relevant view as we move through our personal furrows of time. Also described is how personal the assemblage point position of the earth is to each individual, and tied that into how our doubles are involved, all within the backdrop of infinity, and that infinity materially exists in static frames of time, and the role of intent within that complete view.
Well, it hasn't been accomplished in my mind. I accept all that stuff about the furrows and reflections, which is basic understandings of our condition.
What I continue to have difficulty with is moving of the earth's AP.
Also described is how personal the assemblage point position of the earth is to each individual
I don't get this: why would the AP of the earth, assuming the earth even has an AP, be personal to each individual? I can understand that the AP of an individual is one infinitesimal AP in the collection of all living beings' APs, the totality of which belongs to the earth, along with much else - as living beings on this planet constitute only an infinitesimal portion of the totality of the planet. I also accept that the very concept of a planet belongs to our AP, any yet there is an energetic existence there regardless of how we perceive it through our APs.
I can only assume you mean that my AP is also an AP within the earth - it has to be there in the earth for me to have it. Is that your view? But that doesn't mean it is the AP of the earth. Every living thing has an AP by very dint of the binding force of life, but the AP of a tiny hair on the ankle of my left leg is not my AP. In fact, its AP no doubt is an infinitesimal component of my AP, but frankly, it's so small and insignificant as to be virtually non existent.
Similarly, the earth is so vast, it's knowledge of my AP and any shift in my AP would be irrelevant to the AP of the earth. This reminds me of that old joke about the elephant of the flea.
One day a flea living at the rear end of an elephant was so filled with self-importance and cockiness, that he decided to copulate with the elephant. As he got stuck into his task, by chance a bolder fell off a cliff and onto the head of the elephant. The elephant let out a little groan, whereupon the flea called out, "Suffer baby, Suffer!"
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Basically there is an assemblage point of earth unique to every one being choosing to be in this particular cluster of emanations.
As I thought. This is your point. For me to have an AP, that AP has to exist within the earth - thus you say it is an AP of the earth personal to me.
So by moving my AP, I am also moving the AP of the earth, or rather my specific personal earth AP.
This is drawing a very long bow nemo.
Let's for argument sake say the Earth has a trillion trillion APs, of all the beings-with-AP that exist within the earth. My little one is one of those. If I move my little AP by a fraction, I am in effect creating a shift in the collective. But not if the collective is already fluid, and not if I am only moving my AP within the elasticity of the collective AP.
I don't think you can say my AP is also an AP of the earth.
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How many earths are there in your view Michael?
The flea and the elephant are a perfect example, of mass. The flea is insignificant as you say and has next to no momentum, once he decides to move, he can easily stop and change direction. The elephant comparatively needs to move more mass and once her momentum is up and running she requires more time to change direction.
Now say the flea has hooked into the intent available to him via his double, he then has more power available to his will and can influence the direction of the elephant, this flea instead of fornicating sees that he is able to steer the direction the elephant takes. As the flea moves around on the elephant, he sees his effect on the direction of the elephant, through the intent available via his expanded available will, to effect things.
Frames of Time
With each frame of time moved through, there is a view of that frame specific to the the perceiver of that moment in time, if his view is first attention the focus and therefore alignment is on the toes, the resulting energetic makeup of the next frame is inclined to be only consciously what is right before his nose. If the awareness has an expanded view then the alignment and effect is expanded, what is immediate and what is not shows up at different intervals of time and this is recognizable.
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Now say the flea has hooked into the intent available to him via his double, he then has more power available to his will and can influence the direction of the elephant
I gather much of what you intend is built upon this point, so best I try to be clear what you are saying.
It appears to hinge on two arguments:
1. That there is an essential, inherent link point, via the AP between an individual and the earth.
2. That an active double has the power to influence the much larger being, the earth, through this link.
I don't feel you have established, at least the logic of, these arguments.
1. Although I accept there is an inherent link between the earth and the individual, I wouldn't put that as the AP. That may not matter, so long as that inherent link exists. We could discuss the mechanism without it affecting your second point.
2. You will need to explain your logic on this more. That an individual, even with it's double's assistance, has sufficient power to influence something of the unfathomable enormity of the earth, is just fantasy in my view - you would need to give some examples to build your case.
I don't think you can use the argument that an individual is only influencing an 'earth' that exists with its own AP. Obviously my 'personal' earth, which is part of my own AP, can be influenced by me - I may even be able, were I sufficiently adept, to steer a path through possibilities existing within the earth's aura. But if humanity found the next level of powerful weapon that could, and did, disintegrate the earth itself, every sorcerer travelling through the aura of the earth would have their existence destroyed. Beyond my 'known' or even the margins of my 'unknown', there is an unknowable entity within which I exist, which I label 'earth'.
Just because DJ could replay the leaf falling for CC, doesn't say anything about the earth itself - it only speaks of the ability to retrieve a 'frame' as you say. But no sane person would want to live for eternity within the storage of their own frames, as a refuge.
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My view is based on infinity, and infinity has no limits, which i suppose can be argued against, but it is functional to my point of view. This statement by Florinda from the eagles gift has infinity at its core, and if you see that it relates to the other self.
Florinda:
Florinda explained that when she or her peers talked about time, they were not referring to something which is measured by the movement of a clock. Time is the essence of attention. The Eagle's emanations are made out of time, and properly, when one enters into any aspect of the other self, one is becoming acquainted with time.
She said that the wheel of time is like a state of heightened awareness which is part of the other self- just as the left side awareness is part of the self of everyday life. Florinda said that that state could physically be described as a tunnel of infinite length and width; a tunnel with reflective furrows.
Every furrow is infinite, and there are infinite numbers of them. Living creatures are compulsorily made, by the force of life, to gaze into one furrow. To gaze into it means to be trapped by it; to live that furrow.
Florinda asserted that what warriors call will belongs to the wheel of time. It is something like the runner of a vine, or an intangible tentacle which all of us possess. She said that a warrior's final aim is to learn to focus it on the wheel of time in order to make it turn.
(nemo) Infinite frames of time, will and intent, are aspects of my view. Now you have slipped in things like fantasy and no sane person and so on which are judgments and positioning from a point of view that you have and maintain, which is also an assemblage point position you are taking.
Michael said:
It appears to hinge on two arguments:
1. That there is an essential, inherent link point, via the AP between an individual and the earth.
(nemo) Each individual frame of time only has one energetic center to it's particular moment, and that includes the earth. If I bring us back to the shed example, the earth and the shed are the same thing, just because we categorize what we see into objects, there is no inherent difference between the shed and the earth. When we talk assemblage point, in my view we are the assemblage point, and the AP of the individual can expand to infinity, which includes more than just the earth.
2. That an active double has the power to influence the much larger being, the earth, through this link.
I have stated before that the double is connected to everything and everyone in a more direct way, and this is where the element of will comes into play. When you Michael acknowledge that there are controllers, on this earth I must admit there are, but I also know they have an energetic counterpart/double and through that mechanism for lack of a better term I can wield some influence on their strangle hold they have on the earth I walk on. I will a movement in the wheel of time to timelines where they have less and less say.
I know this for a fact in my own experience, because I have come from a timeline that was much hasher than the one I am on now. Though that is a point that is hard to prove.
I don't think you can use the argument that an individual is only influencing an 'earth' that exists with its own AP. Obviously my 'personal' earth, which is part of my own AP, can be influenced by me - I may even be able, were I sufficiently adept, to steer a path through possibilities existing within the earth's aura. But if humanity found the next level of powerful weapon that could, and did, disintegrate the earth itself, every sorcerer travelling through the aura of the earth would have their existence destroyed. Beyond my 'known' or even the margins of my 'unknown', there is an unknowable entity within which I exist, which I label 'earth'.
Like I said there is an infinity out there, and I am sure that there are timelines that the earth was is and always has been blown up. That is just a few of an infinity of possibilities available. Anyway this last statement by you is more in line with you stating your view again, which again I must say is relevant, more to you than to me.
Just because DJ could replay the leaf falling for CC, doesn't say anything about the earth itself - it only speaks of the ability to retrieve a 'frame' as you say. But no sane person would want to live for eternity within the storage of their own frames, as a refuge.
The leaf example was to show that frames of time existed out of linear time, and could be utilized. You are now are using frames of time as a reference, and that reference is from language that I use, and shows the importance of seeing everything as static moments in time that can be accessed.
What I am an advocate for is that beings become aware of the totality of the self and that is synonymous with being complete, being complete avails a singularity of fluid potentials and conscious choices.
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Hey...
I can see nemo's view (nemo, your view) clearly, and I like it.
Maybe it contains not the exact idea of the assemblage point / what the assemblage point really is but rather what is the effect of assembling. It doesn't have to be bound totally with reason.
Steering the wheel of time is interesting. - ! .-
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Nickosv, cool ;D
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;D
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I would imagine this , as an inner and outer became a unified field of liQuid
Motion possibilities become apparent , in that state i would question a solid earth , ap , me etc , and in that state of existing and merging ( or closely aligning to finer being ) new possibility enters with ability to stive move and create
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Or like this , listenng to a sound resonance overlay another , the color fills the linear space incorporate a different range , as
The overlay occurs within range of perception and beyond immediate , The possibility of
the existing dream to mutate phenomenally is available .
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Or like this , listenng to a sound resonance overlay another , the color fills the linear space incorporate a different range , as
The overlay occurs within range of perception and beyond immediate , The possibility of
the existing dream to mutate phenomenally is available .
Exactly runningstream. You seem to have grasped the leitmotif of this thread.
In essence, in whichever way you deem, all limitations can be superseded. Once you have grasped the essence of infinity, you have a framework for the unlimited.
Seeing as I asked nemo for an image, here is mine for the symbol of 'anything-is-possible', remembering He even brought the sun itself to its knees:
Anjaneya (my current diety)
(http://www.chinmaya.com.au/files/hanuman-unknown.jpg)
Now, the question remains, how can we bridge from our personal situation, to that of our unlimited potential?
It's over to Captain Nemo to chart the steps whereby we can become our unclaimed inheritance.
I am most curious as to this next phase of the sequence we have been pursuing: that we have the theoretical under-writ, what are the steps towards it's fulfilment?
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Michael said:
It's over to Captain Nemo to chart the steps whereby we can become our unclaimed inheritance.
It's not that I can't give a how to, my intent was to make another view available. How to's are more in the realm of teaching, and teachers must establish an energetic relationship that is not my cup of tea. Just sayin...
<-------------- Hermit
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I am most curious as to this next phase of the sequence we have been pursuing: that we have the theoretical under-writ, what are the steps towards it's fulfilment?
steps... don Juan said there 're no steps.
Anyhow, I believe in miracles and recently I believe somehow in external help, be it by a goddess would be one perfect scenario ..
Good will.....
-( There is a special report for bad weather here... )
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA9gUspn6gc
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This may be helpful in understanding the benefit of this view I am presenting. In linear time every adjacent frame is going to look pretty much like the frame before it, and bringing a long history of beliefs along for the ride cements the past into the frames that are about to be entered.
Utilizing infinity and moving out of linear time would allow the next frames to move away from the dominance of beliefs held in linear time. So talking infinite possibilities surrounding you at every moment the next frame you move into could draw on infinity and change your experience even in small ways.
Example:You are sitting in your favourite spot and a mosquito comes along, as the mosquito flies around you it is moving through your frames of time, and is part of your experience. Being the center of your frame, and connected to infinity, there must be a frame that is exactly the same minus the mosquito.
Drawing things into your experience would be the same process. About bringing the sun to its knees, and moving mountains, all these things are in static frames within infinity, out of linear time, in my view.
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http://youtu.be/7wfYIMyS_dI (http://youtu.be/7wfYIMyS_dI)
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Example:You are sitting in your favourite spot and a mosquito comes along, as the mosquito flies around you it is moving through your frames of time, and is part of your experience. Being the center of your frame, and connected to infinity, there must be a frame that is exactly the same minus the mosquito.
I understand this.
The out of linear time in your last sentence just gives me a sense of a loss... due to -I think though- how my brain functions / my uh... oh well, 'time' works .....
~Nick
. ~
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I liked the idea of the complete being, which I would pursue for Michael's inquiry.
Maybe my words at this assemblaged experience I 'm on would be a connected-being.
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http://youtu.be/7wfYIMyS_dI (http://youtu.be/7wfYIMyS_dI)
I wanted to post Enya as well, but did the more classic one of the smooth operator.
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~smile~
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I wanted to post Enya as well, but did the more classic one of the smooth operator.
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~smile~
It came to me after i listened to your link Nickosv cool ;) efcharisto
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It's not that I can't give a how to, my intent was to make another view available.
Alas, as I suspected.
DJ said there were no steps Nik? That's news to me, seeing as CC's 2nd an 3rd books were devoted almost exclusively to steps. Toletc is a methodist tradition far beyond any, even Buddhism.
During my reading of CCs material, I came to realise there were two directions you could take with this material.
1. You could simply jump to believing all the fabulousity and tantalising stories of magic and far-out experiences from your armchair - sitting there doing nothing and believing all you have to do is adopt the identity of a sorcerer. "It's already all here, I don't need to do anything, I'm already everything I want to be."
Or as Nemo put it:in my view freedom is not around the corner somewhere, or in some deep recess of dreaming. It is up close and personal, so in answer to you statement Michael, I do not have to be anything.
This is why I have previously spoken out about a number of Yuku forums, because they are filled with impotent, lazy, sorcerers-in-capes, talking as if they magical mysterious beings, when in fact all they are is naughty boys.
I realised that direction did not lead to the double. All it led to is a trap of fantasy.
2. You could focus on those 2nd and 3rd CC books and only hen peck the rest for further pragmatic tasks, and do it the hard way: by consistent, clever and difficult effort over a very long period of time. This is why I called my book, Spiritual Development the Hard Way. Forgetting about all the fabulous visions, either in books or those you have personally, and devote yourself to practice: practice, practice, practice.
I took the second direction, because I was ultimately serious about my incredible opportunity of life. I knew nothing of worth came without very hard work.
What I discovered along the way, was that my realisations of the nature of time, earth, existence and infinity were completely different to what I would have adopted had I taken the first direction. That is why I don't like talking about all those superlative concepts.
Nemo, you have taken the first direction and your visions of how existence is set up is sheer fantasy. You sit in your hermit cave and believe yourself to be a fabulous magician. Try this: look up tomorrow's weather. If it says a fine, warm, sunny day, switch your 'frame' and make it a dark, cold, raining day - or visa versa. If you can do this consistently, to assure yourself you are not claiming skill on the basis of chance, then try the next task: choose a frame where you are not in your own country, but are standing in front of me in my country, as you initially wanted to do. If you succeed, I'll eat my hat.
These things are possible, but acceptance of their possibility is only one tiny piece of the process. Your 'view' has become a block to seeing reality and your double. I say this because I have taken the time to see you through this thread. And because I have a responsibility to this forum remaining a tool of our journey to an active double.
I know perfectly well you will reject everything I have said here, and consider I have no knowledge, nor authority to claim such, of who you are and where you are. You will claim I am welcome to my view, and you to yours. You will pack your bags and leave believing you have been misunderstood by an ignorant and stupid man. You will prefer to cling to your view like a priest to his crucifix, rather than change your direction.
I feel you are talented Nemo, and your view is not wrong theoretically, on a most simplistic level. But it is the concoction of an intelligent brain, which has projected itself to the depths of a pure 3rd attention theory, without having done the work to back up that theory, and thus understanding the unbelievable complexity of reality. I quoted earlier from DJ's third enemy. But you haven't got that far yet, you are up against the second:
And thus he has encountered his second enemy: Clarity! That clarity of mind, which is so hard to obtain, dispels fear, but also blinds. It forces the man never to doubt himself. It gives him the assurance he can do anything he pleases, for he sees clearly into everything. And he is courageous because he is clear, and he stops at nothing because he is clear.
But all that is a mistake; it is like something incomplete. If the man yields to this make-believe power, he has succumbed to his second enemy and will be patient when he should rush. And he will fumble with learning until he winds up incapable of learning anything more. His second enemy has just stopped him cold from trying to become a man of knowledge.
Instead, the man may turn into a buoyant warrior, or a clown. Yet the clarity for which he has paid so dearly will never change to darkness and fear again. He will be clear as long as he lives, but he will no longer learn, or yearn for, anything.
This is my love to you: don't become a clown!
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Yes steps there are, to the way.
DJ said there are no steps to everything a warrior does, just personal power. DJ was speaking (loud).Most of the times what we can understand of his words was far from what he intended for one in the encounters with Carlos Aranna.
Personal power certainly is gained by steps and struggle.
So was maybe just nemo's view though. I think you are rather hard. (not that it's not your choice)
One last note is that freedom is not one lifetime's case. It may take several lifetimes and unpleasant deaths.
When I was 18-19 I came across a shaman in the internet who told me that we have many lives and presented me the idea of reincarnation.He had a picture of himself surrounded by peyote cacti.
I didn't believed it and I told him so. He said "I know so".
I had already suffered a great defeat already that have caused me my life in a very real way.(not sure, maybe it was before it)
Thought about it really, saw some vessels in a shelf in the island house I was and told to myself , nah there's only one lifetime (but wanted to meet that man again.It was in yahoo good old chat-rooms.I wasn't successful but... oh well I didn't adopt his idea then)
It's fine to say there are no steps but just personal power.
The time is now.
I 'm 31. :)
P.S.
It's fine to say there are no steps but just personal power.
And what is personal power? nemo has his answer as well I believe.
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Like I said don't assume you can see me, and that stands twofold after reading your last post.
If you wish to continue, show that you can interact, without posturing for your position/view.
The steps comment was from Nickosv not me?
Michael said:
I know perfectly well you will reject everything I have said here, and consider I have no knowledge, nor authority to claim such, of who you are and where you are. You will claim I am welcome to my view, and you to yours. You will pack you bags and leave believing you have been misunderstood by an ignorant and stupid man. You will prefer to cling to your view like a priest to his crucifix, rather than change your direction.
Well happy to get that out of your system. Something like this from someone I respected just saddens me. It has been brewing for sometime i suppose. You are implying things here that are inappropriate, seeing I have stated I am only offering another view, now you are not just rejecting my view, you are insinuating that I must listen to your superior view.
I ask you again how many earths are there in your view? Answer it this time and let's move on.
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I can see the hinge between the two so kick it out , lets have the view without two . Lol . Unless you will prefer to stop on the road to this cobblestone , or else roll on
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Michael, I 'll get back to your question
About how to become total / and free to add my own term
I 'm having a picture of a being - intermission: My only believe currently is that our essence is just a flame - that is connected with a number of filaments.(Not talking about emanations for all that I have in mind)
The idea to process would be these filaments to get off the being, ..if they are sticked to us, to get unsticked.If there are 'having a hold with us' to lose their power. And so forth.
Tell me your ideas ....
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If you feel a backing up from me,
ask me questions.
The idea I have circulates about these filaments are hinged with reason or, to use the term 'ration' for you to grasp my picture perhaps better.
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Michael, I 'll get back to your question
About how to become total / and free to add my own term
I 'm having a picture of a being - intermission: My only believe currently is that our essence is just a flame - that is connected with a number of filaments.(Not talking about emanations for all that I have in mind)
The idea to process would be these filaments to get off the being, ..if they are sticked to us, to get unsticked.If there are 'having a hold with us' to lose their power. And so forth.
Tell me your ideas ....
Not a bad question, if I understand it. To achieve something like the 'freedom' that has been spoken of in this thread, just remember a great line by DJ, that we seek freedom without ever knowing what it is. That means we have a core yearning for something we intimately know, yet we don't know - we just head off in some sensed direction.
But that has almost always led back in a loop. To reach past the surface tension of our furrow entrapment, we need to take advise from those who have studied and succeeded in the past. And we need more than one technique, because we have this strange enemy that dresses up in all the things we use to fight it.
One is to divest our being of all the 'filaments' of the world within us. There are essentially two fields of action for this. One is in the meditation-contemplation field. The other is in the sophisticated arranging our outer world.
Speaking to you Nik, I'd say you should begin the recapitulation exercises explained in CC's book, including the head turning part, which CC confusingly gave conflicting instructions for over the years. That exercise is also in Buddhism, without the head turning. I spoke of this in my book, but left out the head turning part, as I though it was a bit far-fetched for most people. But I do believe it to be a fantastic trick - always adding a physical movement to any inner process increases it's power enormously.
From the other side - arranging the outer world - I'd suggest you should begin the process of removing yourself from all your family connections. Making your own money, living in a distant place from your family and friends. This should be prepared for gradually. Piece by piece you sever the social, material and psychological links to your past. We do it piece by piece. In my case, I built a new identity in secret, then choose the moment to leave. Around this time, I had a dream:
In the dream, I was secretly building a very fast red sports car in my garage. It had to be fast because I had to get to the border before the authorities knew, and closed the gates. One day, I knew the time had come. I opened the garage door, and launched forth in my red sports car. I zoomed straight for the border, which was in a tunnel. I could see the man at the gate had got the phone call as I approached, and he flicked the leaver to bring down the gate. I just passed underneath at a terrific speed as it was coming down. Once passed, I drove off into the most beautiful country, with paddocks of green and mountains - free from the clutches of the authorities.
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thanks your info are valuable.
I 'll add more in the future probably.
Nikk
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*#
I do wonder what others have to say as well,
like Nemo
.
Nik
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I see what you are saying nikos in a similar way , although for me it is the flame in my vision which is looking to break free from being inhibited to touch everything outside and become big , so the part that is the flame is intimately familiar with a beautiful state of grace , and the density of a sheath like layer holds it in tact to have to work at that , i think honesty can carry somebody very far , and it is an honesty that is spoken by the body , it lets us know when something is escaping our honesty because it ripples through in a way that stops "us" . It is quite unfamiliar in part , because we get used to the density i pointed at taking the reigns in a kind of known mask as the immediately wired route of familiarity . The flame is "beneath" but present , it is the part that will grow big by following that honesty , the curioUus being we are , that constantly is tested and testing our boundaries.
I breath memories out as they arise sometimes like bubbles floating to the top of a stream they come back to me.
At the moment i am testing the practice of our path behind us being the drive for the path ahead , so personally i don"t really recapitulate or separate the two "flame / density" as i find that to be a separation , and in what i am saying is also a truth and a non truth , because in order to apply that sometimes it is in catching the separation and becoming unity with everything requires waking up to the fact that of being judgemental and trapped by the division between two.
I suppose i see the way out of it as living absolute truth to circumstance , which is a journey able to not stay fixed . Like poetry .
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Please understand my take is my individual path also , and has also been subject to the bumps and pressures imposed within that way also . And also to my own inner navigation through that process . It is definately fixed to that . I am contemplating soon building a hole in the earth for the purposes of see where that space takes me also , re , recap / meditation . so many jobs lately . It is a hunch keeps coming . :)
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I had mean" t to say definately NOT fixed to that :)
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Nick, There are many spiritual traditions that have within their makeup retreats, and for a time through my twenties I felt a calling to a monastic life, away from all the, what I call now the first attention energetics, back then it was something more direct, the seeming need to act out of integrity to survive.
I believe that freedom is recognizable, and total freedom begins to coalesce into something as we become more complete and integrated beings. The need to get away from ones history, such as in my wish to go to some monastery and Michaels change in identity, the recapitulation and so on. Can be accomplished by simply spending more time in nature and silencing the mind, if something keeps popping up then it is still energetically connected to you and needs to be addressed more thoroughly with the recap. The need for wholesale uprooting I suppose is still an option, but why bother.
Being complete is not that complex either, if you feel the need for something external for validation, like a partner, status and so on then the sense of feeling whole comes from without. What happens when that validating thing is taken away, is always a good question to ask.
Any passion such as in music or art, is good to delve into and listen to your heart for direction in all things.
Of course what worked for me is not universal, each of us has our own predilections and inexorable path. That's why I prefer to give a view as I see it, not a way to be as some demand it.
Ah runningstream we were writing at the same time.
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I see what you are saying nikos in a similar way , although for me it is the flame in my vision which is looking to break free from being inhibited to touch everything outside and become big , so the part that is the flame is intimately familiar with a beautiful state of grace , and the density of a sheath like layer holds it in tact to have to work at that , i think honesty can carry somebody very far , and it is an honesty that is spoken by the body , it lets us know when something is escaping our honesty because it ripples through in a way that stops "us" . It is quite unfamiliar in part , because we get used to the density i pointed at taking the reigns in a kind of known mask as the immediately wired route of familiarity . The flame is "beneath" but present , it is the part that will grow big by following that honesty , the curioUus being we are , that constantly is tested and testing our boundaries.
I breath memories out as they arise sometimes like bubbles floating to the top of a stream they come back to me.
At the moment i am testing the practice of our path behind us being the drive for the path ahead , so personally i don"t really recapitulate or separate the two "flame / density" as i find that to be a separation , and in what i am saying is also a truth and a non truth , because in order to apply that sometimes it is in catching the separation and becoming unity with everything requires waking up to the fact that of being judgemental and trapped by the division between two.
I suppose i see the way out of it as living absolute truth to circumstance , which is a journey able to not stay fixed . Like poetry .
Nice running stream, I 've read and agreed with that from a point of sense.
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thanks your info are valuable.
I 'll add more in the future probably.
.....
I do wonder what others have to say as well,
like Nemo
Let me interpret this. What you are saying Nik is, 'Yes, thanks, sounds good, but ... just not now - later ... maybe. For now, I'd just like a good conversation, as that's fun.'
But what if you have little time left? Are you going to put your run off until it's too late?
You see in my view, there is only the run. We have a choice in life, run or fall, the swim or the drown. It's a choice I make on the best way to live.
I'll give you an image to work with while you sit and delay your run:
Life is a descending escalator. If you stand still, you travel down. To even hold the same level, you have to at least walk up at the same speed the escalator is descending. To ascend, you have to walk faster, and you can never stop.
Many people get confused by the concept of infinity surrounding us. Truth is not in the imminence of infinity, truth is in our inability to connect with that infinity. The lazy side of us just wants to connect by accepting the existence of infinity. The mature side knows that acceptance is only the first step. The next step is changing the command. That means we reset our 'face' towards the path of learning - leaning constantly into the unknown. Not in our chair, but in our actions!
To change the command, we have to give up the luxury of 'not now ... later'. Now means now. At some point a decisive decision has to be embraced to change our comfort from sitting to running. Change our comfort from watching to racing - become an adventurer. Pull the stagnant energy up from your feet to your gut. Learn how to prance.
Now Lady Gregory was Yeats' patron, this Irish person, and though I'd never seen her image, I was just sure that this was the face of Lady Gregory.
So I'm walking along, and Lady Gregory turns to me and says,
"Let me explain to you the nature of the universe. Philip K. Dick is right about time, but he's wrong that it's 50 A.D. Actually, there's only one instant, and it's right now, and it's eternity. And it's an instant in which God is posing a question, and that question is basically, 'Do you want to be one with eternity? Do you want to be in heaven?'
And we're all saying, 'No thank you. Not just yet.'
And so time actually is just this constant saying No to God's invitation. That's what time is, and it's no more 50 A.D. than it's 2001. There's just this one instant, and that's what we're always in."
Then she tells me that actually, this is the narrative of everyone's life. That behind the phenomenal differences, there is but one story, and that's the story of moving from No to Yes. All of life is like, "No thank you, no thank you, no thank you," then ultimately it's, "Yes, I give in, yes, I accept, yes, I embrace." That's the journey.
Everyone gets to Yes in the end, right?
[from the film Waking Life]
Wrong - not everyone gets to Yes. We all have to use our audacity. Timidity leads into the mouth.
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Michael, can you oblige a dead dog to sit up and dance ?
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Nemo thanks, for your inputs.
I 'd like to keep nature as the best 'resort' form all that you said.
In my view guidance is everywhere on the path, but not always ...uh visible / available.
Not much can be said, as Michael says the time is now and is a small part of eternity -for our Earth experience.
My best wishes to you.
P.S. Michael likes his view to be the only one valid.
Just saying.To each their own and with his own pace.His own consequences for his/her actions taken and his/her own victories for the enterprises he undertook.
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P.S. Michael likes his view to be the only one valid.
You must not have been reading my posts Nik. I have constantly given multiple approaches, some of which I have said I don't agree with, but still like.
If there is one view I have consistently prosecuted, it is against complacency.
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it's not about that Michael.
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Michael, can you oblige a dead dog to sit up and dance ?
No Nik, I can't. There does have to be a spark there to fan.
But I will say, you can't always know if the spark exists - for that, one has to wait.
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it's not about that Michael.
It is always about 'that' Nik, no matter what anyone thinks or feels.
Complacency is the condition I have set up this forum to challenge, and that challenge lies behind every one of my posts on this forum.
You may think the conversation is about something else, but it never is, no matter where you are.
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It is always about 'that' Nik, no matter what anyone thinks or feels.
Complacency is the condition I have set up this forum to challenge, and that challenge lies behind every one of my posts on this forum.
You may think the conversation is about something else, but it never is, no matter where you are.
I thought we were having a conversation .
Nick
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I thought we were having a conversation .
Nick
Perhaps I should try to explain something Nik.
Nemo is not a novice - he is what I term an 'operator'. Meaning he has progressed passed a certain threshold on the path, and is able to 'operate' as a seer in the world. What I am having with him, is a technical discussion about certain aspects of view.
You Nik, are a novice. You are looking for a pleasant conversation - for you, love means friendship and cordiality. For those who have committed to the path of spirit, love has a very different meaning that you are yet to comprehend.
One of the first things beginners have to develop on this path, is the ability to recentre themselves on a new level of tension. It's called tone. To progress on this path, we have to be able to sustain ourselves, in a very relaxed way, within a field of tension that is necessary for generating a special kind of energy, essential for spiritual realisations. Much of the path of spirit, is knowing how to sustain the generation of that special kind of energy.
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Perhaps I should try to explain something Nik.
Nemo is not a novice - he is what I term an 'operator'. Meaning he has progressed passed a certain threshold on the path, and is able to 'operate' as a seer in the world. What I am having with him, is a technical discussion about certain aspects of view.
You Nik, are a novice. You are looking for a pleasant conversation - for you, love means friendship and cordiality. For those who have committed to the path of spirit, love has a very different meaning that you are yet to comprehend.
One of the first things beginners have to develop on this path, is the ability to recentre themselves on a new level of tension. It's called tone. To progress on this path, we have to be able to sustain ourselves, in a very relaxed way, within a field of tension that is necessary for generating a special kind of energy, essential for spiritual realisations. Much of the path of spirit, is knowing how to sustain the generation of that special kind of energy.
You make me laugh Michael.
You 're such an idiot.
Your seeing is totally off.
Ha ha ha ...
Blessings :)
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Come on Nik, you can do better than that.
Don't resort to slogans, make an effort - articulate what is on your mind.
Let me give you a hand: describe what you are feeling from this thread.
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Come on Nik, you can do better than that.
Don't resort to slogans, make an effort - articulate what is on your mind.
Let me give you a hand: describe what you are feeling from this thread.
Why you battle and resist?
:)
Ok, I 'll give it a try, but be patient.
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What I see, is you acting as a bully.
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What I see, is you acting as a bully.
That's not really a feeling Nik, but I think we get the picture of how you feel, except for one thing...
Can I ask I ask you a question:
Do you laugh at yourself any...time?
Yes, in short. Much to the annoyance of my friends, I find my self, and everyone's self, a source of great mirth. I say to the annoyance of my friends, because I was born with a Monty Python sense of humour, which, for some strange reason, is not shared by most of the world. In other words I laugh at absurdity, of myself and the world. But what I don't find a source of great mirth, is my intent.
What you call a bully, is actually your contact with my intent. And I can assure you, that is a rare thing, because a forum like this is one of the few places I ever allow people to see my intent. And you are being generous to call it a 'bully' - I wouldn't use such a tame word for it.
So let me ask you a question now Nik. I know you have spoken of that lofty, nebulous concept of freedom in which we all indulge, but really, in prosaic terms, what do you want from life? In your heart, what kind of things do you long for? I know about your relationship with a partner, which is fine, but even with a partner, you have to do something, go somewhere, become something etc - you can't just sit facing each other. It has to be a partnership towards something. What direction is your desire for this life?
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I 'm sorry Michael, this is not a thread about me, nor will I share information about me here.
What do you want to know, and for why really?
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I have visuals for this in my seeing more than words can do justice for. The mind creates linear sequencing, and actually actively defends the functional programming inherent in the first attention somewhat illusionary material world. So to look at an object there is an observer and then a force that agglutinates the object into position. The object and the observer are part of the total equation that makes up the event. That event is a static mathematical constant, in time, relative and unique to the observer.
If the observer is sharing it's immediate area within its bubble of perception with another energy producing entity they will spin a reality that merge what is observed. Like in the video below shows to some extent that everything is in a super position. earth included. What draws something into a particular position, is the intent of the observer.
This amazing moment in time, is generally made to be missed by the first attention on purpose, because that is the reason for the first attention. Now Michaels forum here has an energetic makeup that puts pressure on the first attention to expand/move away from what DJ called the dimple, by putting pressure on an entity to move away from it's comfort zone, in so doing new emanations will become aligned away from the dimple. (comfort zone). If this is done in a way that alienates, then the dimple position is reinforced.
This is the function of a teacher, in my case i have no interest in being the type of teacher that put pressure on someone. This is what i meant when said i have no interest that kind of arrangement, and as can be observed in the last posts between Nick and Michael. Michaels offerings need to be correct, to have the power to move someones AP and not seeing someone absolutely will be seen as incorrect by the receiver negating the power.
Anyway back to the importance of the observer, in any moment in time, relative to super positioning of any object including earth is the makeup of that one particular observer. Their choices there power, history and so on. There is no world at large only AP positions.
http://youtu.be/D1ezNvpFcJU (http://youtu.be/D1ezNvpFcJU)
Michael said:
Nemo is not a novice - he is what I term an 'operator'. Meaning he has progressed passed a certain threshold on the path, and is able to 'operate' as a seer in the world. What I am having with him, is a technical discussion about certain aspects of view.
Keep it technical Michael.
Nickosv said:
In my view guidance is everywhere on the path, but not always ...uh visible / available.
My teacher has been the spirit and the books by CC.
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The Art of Dreaming: Intending in the second attention
She linked her arm with mine, and we reached the park in silence. It was not at all a
forced silence. But my mind was running in circles. How strange, I thought; only a while
ago I had walked with don Juan from the park to the church, in the midst of the most
terrifying normal fear. Now I was walking back from the church to the park with the
object of my fear, and I was more terrified than ever, but in a different, more mature,
more deadly manner.
To fend off my worries, I began to look around. If this was a dream, as I believed it was,
there was a way to prove or disprove it. I pointed my finger at the houses, at the church,
at the pavement in the street. I pointed at people. I pointed at every thing. Daringly, I
even grabbed a couple of people, whom I seemed to scare considerably. I felt their mass.
They were as real as anything I consider real, except that they did not generate energy.
Nothing in that town generated energy Everything seemed real and normal, yet it was a
dream.
I turned to the woman, who was holding on to my arm, and questioned her about it.
"We are dreaming," she said in her raspy voice and giggled.
"But how can people and things around us to be so real, so three-dimensional?"
"The mystery of intending in the second attention!" she exclaimed reverently. "Those
people out there are so real that they even have thoughts."
Intending in the second attention, spinning a reality. First attention also spins a reality, and it has rules and functionality. The problem with the intent of both attentions is that they are limited jurisdictions. The reason I bring this up is that the tenant took items from this world and projected it into the second attention, to make her world.
With a mass of energy producing beings, there is the ability to make a very real and solid reality . To make this reality less real, and more energetic, we require an integration of the energetic second attention intensity, and the material first attention solidity. Intending knowingly with these two aspects in balance, we can move AP's down suitable timelines, and match positions with others of the same intent. = Mass
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Michael, have you banned anyone from this site ever.
Your theories with Nemo is just not my plate, so I can't contribute with question or insight.
One thing I study here is using the syntax properly,
Language.
P.S. This adventure operation we just had is indeed my plate.
:-*
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So, what my word was that I see you acting as a bully was a contact with your intent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfhGEPiwRJk
One question I had was if your vision -to use a word- of -your for the case- intent is something like your 'property'.
I know fishes like maneuvers but because I have a different idea and approach to intent and what it really is.
there is. ( . my question)
P.S. I hope I 'm clear in this. I just wonder if your intent is considered by you something like a property.
P.S.S. Then I fall back in the loop that fishes like maneuvers.
)( lol
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OK nemo, let's give you the benefit of the doubt.
What's your plan? How are you going to do it?
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OK nemo, let's give you the benefit of the doubt.
What's your plan? How are you going to do it?
I have already done it and am still doing it some more. I am just mapping it now, so as to make it an available option for those that are not aware of the possibility. Much of what has been written here by me are the pieces that make up the cognitive view, that I use.
Previously I have asked you to come forward to say how many earths there are in your view. The reason it is important to get you to offer an answer, was because either ones cognitive view accepts that there is just one earth, or as soon as an individual even entertains the idea that there exists more than one earth, then the next step is how many earths are there then?
Two, three lol, well then if there is more than one then it gets very difficult to put a limit to how many earths there are doesn't it? Then/when infinity comes into view just a little cognitively. The next step is, if there actually is an infinity of earths, why and how am I on this particular one. What is fixating me to this particular one, and how do I change which one I am on.
DJ The Power of Silence:
"A somersault of thought into the inconceivable," he explained with an air of resignation, "is the descent of the spirit; the act of breaking our perceptual barriers. It is the moment in which man's perception reaches its limits. Sorcerers practice the art of sending scouts, advance runners, to probe our perceptual limits. This is another reason I like poems. I take them as advance runners. But, as I've said to you before, poets don't know as exactly as sorcerers what those advance runners can accomplish."
"I'm going to tell you something fundamental about sorcerers and their acts of sorcery," he went on. "Something about the somersault of their thought into the inconceivable."
Then DJ goes on to talk about Calixto Muni
"The sorcerer storyteller who changes the ending of the 'factual' account," he said, "does it at the direction and under the auspices of the spirit. Because he can manipulate his elusive connection with intent, he can actually change things. The sorcerer storyteller signals that he has intended it by taking off his hat, putting it on the ground, and turning it a full three hundred and sixty degrees counterclockwise. Under the auspices of the spirit, that simple act plunges him into the spirit itself. He has let his thought somersault into the inconceivable."
Don Juan lifted his arm above his head and pointed for an instant to the sky above the horizon.
"Because his pure understanding is an advance runner probing that immensity out there," don Juan went on, "the sorcerer storyteller knows without a shadow of doubt that somewhere, somehow, in that infinity, at this very moment the spirit has descended. Calixto Muni is victorious. He has delivered his people. His goal has transcended his person."
(nemo) I use these example from CC's books to show that what I am saying is not outside what has been covered in those books. It is my belief because of CC's proclivity for dreaming that the books tend to appeal to dreamers and dreaming, but within them DJ did give sufficient warnings and reasons for not giving it the primary emphasis within the teachings. Dreaming as you can see is put in the same importance level as feeling and seeing.
(http://www.aquakeys.com/files/toltec/img/cc/04/eight_pt_diagram_1-328x262.gif)
Now I can answer the two missing elements in this diagram, but I will honour what DJ did and not fill them in. You can see that they are connected to will. They are only indirectly through will connected to the rest of what makes up a being, a singularity.
Like I said when I first started here in the Egypt thread that I will articulate another view as best I can for yaw'll, and then you can take it or leave it. The diagram shows a reality where those two question marks are not even a conscious issue thus an awareness incorporating a world view that only uses those identified elements, creates a world by default first attention programming. As I have also said before that that is just as legitimate a view, because that is also an assemblage point position one can have. What I am offering is the rational for navigating infinity along with a working view.
Michael, In lieu of teaching directly I will work on a list of rules of thumb and post it here when I am finished with it. That would absolve me of from leaving this view high and dry without a teacher, as you seem to think is an issue.
Teaching is a little weird, from my view, because in a way you become bound to getting something across to another, whatever it is, when it starts to get into a view of reality, then it takes on being an advocate for one view over another, and in the case of my view, no view is more relevant than any other so being left with a paradoxical situation, as not really being an advocate for someone to change their view one iota, if they choose not to. I am only willing to offer the view, if it works for whomever comes across it.
As you can see I have been consistent from the start not to say your view is irrelevant, because it is not at all, yet you did not have my view in your repertoire of possible descriptions, in the way i offer it and now you do :>). It may sink in as something you would like to adopt, or you can reject it and even ridicule it, and warn people against adopting it or delete it, that's my friend is totally up to you.
Django Unchained
http://youtu.be/eDDXpIS3GgM
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Though I wrote in my journal, that I can't do it/ proceed.
Some things , I believe is not up to us to come into an outcome or not... there is only a successful outcome on my plans of course...
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Relax and then see again....................................................................
http://youtu.be/u4v6swKWx9A
Spinning Away
Up on a hill, as the day dissolves
With my pencil turning moments into line
High above in the violet sky
A silent silver plane - it draws a golden chain
One by one, all the stars appear
As the great winds of the planet spiral in
Spinning away, like the night sky at Arles
In the million insect storm, the constellations form
On a hill, under a raven sky
I have no idea exactly what I've drawn
Some kind of change, some kind of spinning away
With every single line moving further out in time
And now as the pale moon rides (in the stars)
Her form in my pale blue lines (in the stars)
And there, as the world rolls round (in the stars)
I draw, but the lines move round (in the stars)
There, as the great wheels blaze (in the stars)
I draw, but my drawing fades (in the stars)
And now, as the old sun dies (in the stars)
I draw, and the four winds sigh (in the stars)
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Nemo . Wonderful there . Thankyou :)
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Nickos . On fish , it seems we are dancing to this flame and we will see , some dance , flickers , shadows , bouncing away . Nemos post was wonderful for " swim" i am so happy to see it this wonderful morning :)
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Here is another for you!
Brian Eno - How Many Worlds
http://youtu.be/VDzTKojybU4 (http://youtu.be/VDzTKojybU4)
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Bullshit all the way.
Just my view, but it seems we 're losing time that we actually don't have. (Speaking of we where I actually feel completely alone in here)
Seeing time and time again all 'in' their personal inventories, doing ...their stuff.
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Perhaps I should try to explain something Nik.
Nemo is not a novice - he is what I term an 'operator'. Meaning he has progressed passed a certain threshold on the path, and is able to 'operate' as a seer in the world. What I am having with him, is a technical discussion about certain aspects of view.
You Nik, are a novice. You are looking for a pleasant conversation - for you, love means friendship and cordiality. For those who have committed to the path of spirit, love has a very different meaning that you are yet to comprehend.
One of the first things beginners have to develop on this path, is the ability to recentre themselves on a new level of tension. It's called tone. To progress on this path, we have to be able to sustain ourselves, in a very relaxed way, within a field of tension that is necessary for generating a special kind of energy, essential for spiritual realisations. Much of the path of spirit, is knowing how to sustain the generation of that special kind of energy.
I still have to laugh with this bullshit.
How could the moderator storm's view be be so wrong.
Surprised me unpleasantly.`
I knew we are all alone in this ...path but, it surprised me unpleasantly.
Not much more to add.
+
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I will add some , there are different views running in different streams , the turbulent stream , the calm , the storm too ,
The storm seems to place things apparently out of place ,
As the place affEcted the finding of placement ,
The view held , created , of having found been placed .
Something like that , where the voices point to .
in the middle " detached " is still
"Attached" maybe too ,
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It is a way of pointing , if we point well , we can show . And then there is the doing , and amidst this , the claiming . the claiming within the doing if only.
For instance , nemos view found perfect timing for me when placed in a usable context of gathering " wind" ,
Michael and your illustration nikos found placement also wothin the wind for me ,
And although tempted to not write , and let it go , i wanted to breath a new breath into it , also so i can articulate it for myself and you also here
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the middle of the stream is tight wind , a tension in my midsection feeling
It brings me to seek the swet spot , because it has been proven to be effective ,
The fire is also good to bring about a transformation , because it must bridge the water via entering the wind ,
Im sorry for the symbolic model , however , being lost to the fire , the wind and the water may equally be puzzling to myself in this vision
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I am busy now nemo, but I'll say just a few things to try and clarify.
Your overall view of the 'setup' is not new, and I'm not in disagreement in principle. It is a basic view coming not only from Castaneda, but from other traditions in slightly different dress. As I say, in principle, it is the same view I have of the cosmos, aside from some aspects which are not critical.
The difference between us, from what I see, and as I have explained, is a matter of emphasis of what is important to address in the overall range of things. I get the picture that you follow a view espoused by Castaneda, in which all that is necessary is to switch the mind into acknowledging the inherent potential that surrounds us. A similar view is held in some strands of Buddhism. I don't actually disagree with that idea in theory, but in practice.
I have not mentioned teaching at all, as far as I recall, in this thread. Teaching is a totally different matter altogether. Just because I focus upon a pragmatic approach, whereby we build slowly, following a series of tasks, does not imply teaching. I am not engaged in teaching, not because I have anything against it, or against anyone who does it, but because I follow a path in which it hasn't been required. That doesn't stop me from giving my opinion.
I am not favourable towards Castaneda. Since the first book of his which I read about forty years ago, I have found him to be one of the most stupid and annoying people possible. I noted that DJ felt the same way. After DJ and his tribe disappeared, he didn't change, but just went further and further off the rails.
So I am not favourable to his view of changing the AP of the Earth. Not that I don't understand what he means by that, but I don't believe he had the sobriety to engage in such a task actively. He did engage passively, and I feel he was only trying to salvage some self-belief by reflecting on what spirit used him for, and thinking he was in some way responsible as an active agent.
My disagreement with you nemo, is that you feel simply by presenting a possibility, you have opened an opportunity. By presenting to people a view of infinite potential, your task is done, and that view is all that is necessary to tip the balance towards infinite realisation. That has not been my experience. It is what I call tree-climbing. Along the way I have climbed huge trees, and seen the infinite potential available to me. But when I climb down again, I haven't gone anywhere. This is the problem with scout-realisations. Of course these expansive realisations are a necessary part of the whole, but they have to be matched with the knowledge of how to walk towards that vision. And that walk is the most difficult part. That is the task of creating the opportunity - until the door of opportunity has been opened, our scout-realisations of potential are useless to us.
It is not a simple matter of a few guidelines, it is a serious strategy. It is a strategy towards a moment when we realise that all strategies are futile, but that moment can not be pre-empted. In the old symbol of the well, the walls must be strong and well-made, the bucket watertight and the rope resilient, if the water is to be retrieved fresh and safe.
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Thank you Michael that was a wonderful post.
Words are not always the best way to get things across, I picked up along the way from you that if I do not give pragmatic steps, then I am just postulating a view with no substance. There has been an undercurrent from you that I must substantiate my view with meaningful proof, for validation. Which i see is still voiced in this last post again. That if my view does not change your experience then it is just fluff.
If you climbed the tree to see the view and then back down again to see your world as it was, and still is, you must admit that your experience and claims need not be universal in nature.
Yes you may have come across this view before, but you have not come across me before in this timeline. I tell you that I have a working relationship with this view, it comes from/through my experience first, then I formulated into the words to get it across.
Previously I told you I came from a world that is much hasher than the one I am on now. This was done through some life risking gestures, done at a time I did not know what I was doing. It is only after a few of these experiences that the affect of what I was doing was revealed to me by spirit.
About your take on CC, I have just about the same seeing, but I also know he had to be the way he was for the books to have been written. As far as DJ, for the most part what he has said through CC's books I find the most compressive, explanations that I align with. It is not that I have not spent the time to research other dogma's I have, extensively, including science and new age material.
After I came across the book written by the man claiming to be Lujan Matus, I went to see him for a few reasons, but primarily I am very thorough in my research, for a lack of a better word. Now I am having a gesture with you, as I have with many others. You in many ways are my favorite, because I feel you are the most sincere, one example of a few attributes I respect.
A Practical Example:
I live in Canada, Canada is not I country in my view, it is a corporation owned, by (wont get into it, let's just say there are mystical schools that hand down knowledge of the functional control of first attention awareness, from Egyptian, Oriental and Babylonian lineages).
So knowing this is not enough to move the personal and world AP. Action must be taken, action is an energetic thrust within fragments of time, an alignment that moves you down a particular timeline. It must be about five six years ago now I started driving without a valid drivers licence. I have been stopped in my van only once in all that time, and that one time my double engaged the officer so much that he was unable to coherently move through his ritual, and couldn't wait to get away. I set out, and intend to move freely within my furrow of time, outside the agreement of the controllers to do so in the way that they set out for most others, they do not have my agreement, to restrict me and my doings. This is just one example, DJ said the sorcerers revolution is to not honour agreements that they did not participate in.
Of interest may be is my wifes car broke down and she used my van for only three days and got $500 dollars worth of tickets, because I do not licence my van either. My brother in-law for a week and got ticketed also, much to their chagrin.
I suspect Michael when you climb up the tree and get the view, and back down. When you receive a money request renewal from the corporate commonwealth of Australia to remain under their jurisdiction, you pay it. This is a spell over your, and pretty much everyones doings.
There are many Kashmirs, an infinity of them in my view each one slightly different. Getting to the one that is full of the beauty charm and safety, for those in it and visitors alike are down timelines of choice, not always the safe easy choice.
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What's your plan? How are you going to do it?
Earlier I said my gig was to find adepts. To a great extent for me to find adepts, there needs to be adepts. lol. As Nichi said they would have their own travels, and would not necessarily see the benefits of mass.
The benefit of a mass of anything is that it can create an inertia, a mass of adepts, fluid beings, outside the fixed construct, would be able to map and open an energetic portal. In this way others would just need to read the recipe, without all the misdirections, from personal agenda's.
The earth (this particular timeline) is run by beings that are not good stewards in my view, they draw there power from occult practices, they keep their knowledge secret and use it to manipulate. Once you see how the game is being played, you then at least can make a conscious choice to play or not.
So my plan now? hey it's still up in the air. Personally I am getting a little tired of forums, so I may pack that in shortly. Then just keep in touch with a few friends I have made along the way. Main project at the moment is manipulating my position in linear time sequencing, breaking continuity within furrows of time, in other words teleporting.
Michael, Feeling like wrapping up my contributions here. If it's okay I will work on the rules of thumb, and then post it. Other than that, unless you have any cogent questions I see no need to continue.
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Earlier I said my gig was to find adepts. To a great extent for me to find adepts, there needs to be adepts. lol. As Nichi said they would have their own travels, and would not necessarily see the benefits of mass.
The benefit of a mass of anything is that it can create an inertia, a mass of adepts, fluid beings, outside the fixed construct, would be able to map and open an energetic portal. In this way others would just need to read the recipe, without all the misdirections, from personal agenda's.
The earth (this particular timeline) is run by beings that are not good stewards in my view, they draw there power from occult practices, they keep their knowledge secret and use it to manipulate. Once you see how the game is being played, you then at least can make a conscious choice to play or not.
So my plan now? hey it's still up in the air. Personally I am getting a little tired of forums, so I may pack that in shortly. Then just keep in touch with a few friends I have made along the way. Main project at the moment is manipulating my position in linear time sequencing, breaking continuity within furrows of time, in other words teleporting.
Michael, Feeling like wrapping up my contributions here. If it's okay I will work on the rules of thumb, and then post it. Other than that, unless you have any cogent questions I see no need to continue.
I think there is the personal and the 'global' field.
To operate solely for ourselves and see ourselves as separate is not what we must do in a way even though its hard to achieve it , far from a beautiful idea.
For me, it's about balance... in all levels...
The idea is to have less actually is more real than to want more, something up to interpretation by each of us of course.
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I should just add that this 'frame-choice' technique is also one I use regularly. I especially use it when the frame in question has not yet loaded - doesn't matter if it's actually happened in linear time, so long as I don't know. I use this in both large and small matters. I actively select the frame I prefer, in my own consciousness, and then 'hop' across.
Two things restrict this.
The selection has to be known to be available - this requires knowledge of the possibility, past experience for personal confidence that it can in fact be done, and the ability to remember to do it. Those are not easy, but they are in fact the easy part. The second thing is more difficult:
The hop. Actually I see this more as allowing the frame to draw me into it, but 'hop' is a nice image to speak about it. The problem with being able to hop to the selected frame is that we have all these internal restraints working against it. This is why DJ sent CC back to recapitulation again and again, as there are multiple inner forces that sabotage our natural abilities. Such that often children can do this much easier, if they only knew about it. A major part of my whole pragmatic approach is to work at clearing the subconscious forces which sabotage our natural state of freedom, but also to build the strength to withstand the impact of the shell cracking, without which we only talk to ourselves in the mirror - no frame hopping is possible or safe until the shell can open and close at will.
I also see one other thing which restricts this. This is best explained by the more sophisticated concept of karma in Hinduism. I won't go into it too deeply, except to say there are layers of karma. Superficial layers hold frames that we can easily change. Deeper layers hold frames that it is generally considered too entrenched, for us to acquire the power within one life, to change. In our terms here, that means all frames can be changed, but we need the personal power and transparency to match the frame. To select a frame like shifting the AP of the Earth, would require a massive potency of many adepts over a long period of time, as CC implied, or a single being with the personal potency to match the embedded force of that frame.
I am inclined to have some sympathy with CC's interest in this, despite my feeling he was no where up to the task. Furthermore, I also feel the Earth has reached a critical phase, in which we are likely to see many adepts, alive or at least still existing, take a hand in the matter, who previously felt it was none of their business. What is difficult in this, is understanding which frame for the Earth's AP is the one we should pull to. 'Best for the Earth' is not always what we would like to see. The only response I have for this, is to remain as alert as possible to where I see the influence of wiser beings than I. This is not easy, but not that impossible either, so long as one realises that it is 'spirit' we value rather than it's manifestation.
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Quoting back from April 1:
By all means Nikosv, this is your thread after all.
In my view the eagle reflects back to you what you are, if you die, then you are a being that lived a reflective furrow that ended in death. Then the singularity known by you as Nikosv, would fade and the observer, free of the singular self reflective identity would enter another furrow in time or not.
This benevolent bit is a reflection is it not? I stated that the furrow reflects to you what you are, and that reflection changes with the attention level attained and maintained. I suppose the common view is that there is something out there effecting our senses, but what is interacting with us boils down eventually to a view. Something is either outside of us or not, which in my view can be resolved by the view one takes.
I would like to emphasise on discussion about the last sentences of the paragraph... :
I suppose the common view is that there is something out there effecting our senses, but what is interacting with us boils down eventually to a view. Something is either outside of us or not, which in my view can be resolved by the view one takes.
I disagree with it and probably will add why shortly.
-/-/_
The reason is, a case of battle and that I see it somehow (still, for what we are discussing for some time) unresolved.
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My belief stand/is that this thing (The Eagle) has no attention, but that doesn't/can't make sense
so, I would then say,
that it doesn't uses attention.
-------
"attention!"
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http://globeattractions.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/kitzbuhel-mountain-mountain-austria-nature.jpg
_____
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Good , reason craps out , ""attention"" . non attention , as a flicker takes form it has already passed by , so by "" displacement "" appearance , this displacement occuring reveal significant insubstantiality , as displacement being , awareness is non stationary , " will " ocuring " reason " , " fin-ite" , insubstantial , " displacement " , power , occurence , fine - nite , liquid image flow forth , simultaneous existing motion. , eg . Motion / displacement ,
"honing in" , movement , unifying , "" attention "" insightful / non attention , the unlearning of known through displacement .
I am in agreement on , spirits hand in affairs of being " impersonal " to degree of removing " personal " , inquisitive action . passing through / displacing attention as act of unifying motion / usefully applied within motion .
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Runningstream, I 'm afraid that's the path of the double,
which is not a path, in 'absolute' terms.
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Though, that's just my perspective on it, and the path I follow.
I concentrate on balance however it's possible.
much can be said, but I believe its true that everyone has his own path and he and she is unique.
"that everyone has his own path and he and she is unique."...
I value very much this fact,statement.
~
We are like little flames in a world of a billion stars. I can't see myself as anything else ,
at least currently.
Nick
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just a little note, that I use the word double on my own terms,
not as Michael uses it.
NV-
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What does that mean nikos ? Not a path in absolute terms? The path of the double , what does that connection mean to you?
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Nothing running..
forget it. ;D
I started this thread as a gesture about love in a way and the double discussion popped in. ;D
I don't know what I mean,... I saw it all in the blackfield.
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"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: those with loaded guns and those who dig."
A message from my double, seeing as you asked.
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Then a
Message
To you both
, to seed and yield ,
one foot
Must be placed at furrow
and another the hand must throw
To forego either side or lean too far
Another thing will sway
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Excellent post Nik!
You know, in all the time Restless Soma has been running, I have never seen such a post which enables me to explain something so fundamental to this forum.
We have 48 current members and probably double that in others who have deleted their membership. And how many do you see posting here? None (except for you and on occasion Nemo, who will most likely seek more exciting venues). Do you know why they don't post anymore? Precisely for the reason you have so artlessly articulated. I will explain. Your English may not be up to all the concepts I outline, but I recommend you ponder this post carefully.
We all have many me's. There is the me our family know, the me our friends know, the me our work scene knows, the me the government knows (usually by a number). The me our intimate partner knows / has known / will know. And so forth: the angry me, the quiet me, the frightened me, the confident me, the child me, the parent me, the adult me....
Then there is the private me - the secret me who no one else really knows, because no one takes the time and trouble to find out. For many people the private me is weak and vague, but for some of us, it is the most important me in our bag-of-me's: it is the real me. Most people who find their way to this forum have a strong sense of this private me. They come here seeking validation and recognition for their private me. Unfortunately, they don't find that here. Do you know why?
This forum was set up for a different purpose. You see, there is another me which has been forgotten. This me can never be known fully, because it's very nature is mystery. It does not belong to the common battleground of me's within us - amongst the perennial struggle for each me to survive or dominate, this mystery me is always absent. It exists outside the sense of completeness we all have about our being. It is the unknown me. We call this me the double.
Restless Soma is set up and dedicated to the path of the double.
I have always been aware of this as I have seen many who had weak links to their double and they eventually folded. Some had to be banned because they behaved like children.
You are absolutely candid and correct in saying "I just feel a restriction in expressing me." No one has ever put it better.
In this forum, we do not set out to obstruct the private me. There is every good reason for the healthy growth of the private me. But the forum is what it is, and that means every member eventually finds themselves before a struggle between the private me and the double. Some succeeded in this struggle, whereby their private me came to the realisation that they were not the only ruler of their destiny, and thus arrived at a constructive sharing of power with this elusive being, the double. They were the small minority, and they moved on to their next phase of growth in which a close partnership with the double became the core of their path.
Very few.
The greater majority left Restless Soma because they failed the challenge. They chose to reject their double and retain the sovereignty of their private me. These people believe the growth in power of their private me is what spirituality is all about. They found Restless Soma a hindrance to their 'spiritual' path - the path of their private me. They had no choice but to leave.
[/quote]
I disagree with some of this. This is the reason why and I feel qualified because I communicated with many of them. I believe what people were doing is looking for a)conversation where they would be praised for their efforts, b) validation they were on the right track and c) also entertainment. When they did not get 'fed' these things, eventually they got frustrated and left.
Of course they will all deny this vehemently, but because you have articulated this dilemma so simply and clearly, for the very first time in Restless Soma, I am telling you now what is really happening here in this forum. That is the reason it is called Restless.
This restless soma.. yada yada. I know. This place is not for the faint at heart. That is why I like it.
The only people who find their way here are those who have approached a critical threshold in their life journey. They are ready for the challenge of the double. There can be no peace in our soul until this challenge has been successfully negotiated, thus it is known as the restless phase of the path - there can be no peace in a soul that is estranged from the double, once the possibility of it's existence is intuited.
Your private me is correct in it's desire to not return here, but it is your double that has brought you back, no matter what reason you think you returned for. That is why I said I "thought you might have been trying to fight your double on this".
The path of the double can only be entered upon once the double has evolved sufficiently to actively intervene in our life. Unfortunately, for most people, the double lacks the power or the wisdom to intervene effectively, and thus to challenge the authority of the private me. (By contract, there are many stories of doubles striking down all the me's inside and taking undisputed control, but rarely do you meet such cases in real life, and anyway, such domination by the double is not advised - a partnership is the best.)
Your comment above indicates your private me has the intelligence to see clearly, the honesty to acknowledge the situation, and the lack of overbearing self-importance to speak it out loud on the forum. These are excellent signs.
Now you must make a choice. Will your private me allow for the possibility of the existence of a rival - another me of equal or greater authority, which you know nothing about? Are you willing to set to one side your private me for the path of the double? Only you can make that choice, and only I will know what choice you have made.
Ok. I have some comments on all this just some of my opinions.
Like I eluded above, people want praise. This comes from the 'private me' as you put it, who is reared by parents who give positive reinforcement when you do good, and discipline when you do 'bad.' Because of this mentality, this did not go over well, cause when people were reacting the way they did in here, they did not get reinforcement. And RS is not a place which gives positive reinforcement. The reason is because yes, this is a place to connect with the double and try to integrate the double into life. However, most are shielded for some time, and only those who truly work at spiritual growth are going to incorporate their double, in any positive way.
There is a spiritual forum around which has about 500 members or so, with various topics, and there is very little criticism, and must pat on the backing in the place. This can be fine for a sense of community if someone is seeking that. However one is not going to grow in such an environment. One has to be ruthless with the private me.
I do not know if the answer is to eradicate the private me, or just turn it into a little silent voice and make it small. I don't know for certain. The sufis say to destroy it, so do the buddhas, but psychologists dont think this is healthy. However, whatever we do we can transform the private me, by integrating the double. Then instead of the double being the tool to use to 'bring out the box' when the 'call is on,' the double is strong and alive, and the private me can be brought out, when it is necessary. I do not know if you agree or disagree with the private me aspect, if it should be slayed or just tempered. I have yet to uncover what is the necessary approach to it for spiritual growth.
I think people feel safer reading the forum, versus communicating, because they do not see the same sense of community. To myself, RS is a place where I can come, I sit in front of the laptop, and not just 'think' about what to say, but really, dig into the core, and 'feel' what perhaps spirit, or double, wants me to say and say it. But it is not just that. I want to see if from what I write - my creation - I can see the double's magic. For example, today I wrote my posts to you. I had the feeling there was something in my astro report. Sure enough, something on criticism was in my report.
How I saw this, was a 'jolt' from spirit, and from my double aka a message. And this is pretty much how I operate. When I get the jolt, this causes my mind to seek out the double, and look for the higher purpose of it all.
Another odd happening was I was reading what the guests were reading, and one of the posts I wrote on personal power came up. So I read it, over and over. My God I wrote that post five years ago! And it still has a ring of truth to it. I read it to my daughter and she said it was good. I told her, "You didn't know I could write like that, did you?" But I can when I connect with Spirit, my Double. I can feel that flow and the message comes forth.
I think another thing why some have teetered off, is not they weren't trying, but they got 'stuck' and could not get 'unstuck.' I know you said we dont really shift the ap, and I agree, but we do change our perception (like Jahn says). They were not able to change their perception, so they could not change their circumstances, and got stuck. To myself, this really requires getting a new set of eyes on the path, so you can see things differently.
This is not an easy forum where you can write easy peasy stuff. You really have to dig deep to get something meaningful out. And I realise that is why you said I was being boring. I need to really dig deep, because the more I dig, I will get closer and closer to the double. So I will do my best to dig a little deeper when I write. And then use the rest of the time for some silence.
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"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: those with loaded guns and those who dig."
A message from my double, seeing as you asked.
So odd. I just saw this after I wrote this post. I wrote about digging deeper, than saw this.
Well I guess that's Restless Soma for you...
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Michael...
I'm back...
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just a little note, that I use the word double on my own terms,
not as Michael uses it.
NV-
You don't need to be concerned with how Michael terms The Double. The main thing is to uncover and integrate the double for you.
Don't underestimate this forum. I have seen someone come in here, and I bore witness to them killing their own double.
Not a pretty site.
Yes, it can be done, and without the double, the little glimmer of hope we have to make it to the infinite.
*Poof* snuffed out. Just like nothing.
They are not going to make it. It is a long story how they killed their double, but I saw it. Dead as a doornail, never to return.
It didn't just leave, it was 'dead.'
That message about laying down the guns and digging, is for everyone who comes here.
That should be made into a fat graphic.
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Spirit is both light and darkness. There is no real devil. That is just the nature of spirit. Light and darkness has always been the way.
Spirits darkness is much different than ours. However ours is a real true threat to us.
When you come to restless soma, you will experience both, because this is spirits nature.
And the real test is to choose which one you will serve.
The goal is to shed light where darkness reigns and clean house.
If darkness takes over, no work is done, and you become a dark being.
Like a dark sorcerer.
Some choose that path, but the path will eventually eat them alive.
It takes more work being a creature of the light, then a creature of the night.
The more we strengthen the connection to spirit, spirit tests us. And makes our darkness known. Then we have to face it, and do the work.
The person who killed their double, they did so because they kept doing things which were so detrimental, that the darkness took over.
Spirit didnt sever the connection to the double, they did.
Then they incorporated a 'false' double, by becoming all ego. They may think they are on the right path, however they are definitely not.
Like I said, I saw it, dead. I can see.
I know when someone has just done so much, they succumb to darkness.
I almost sucummed to darkness. I had a breakdown. When I was in the hospital during my breakdown, I looked in the mirror, and saw my darkness reflecting back.
Since that moment, I have been on a long journey, and worked very hard, to eradicate my darkness, and bring forth the light.
Yes some darkness still lurks but I know how to temper it. I deal with it in my dreaming, and fight the ghosts, the monsters, the zombies.
Darkness overtakes us through the weakness of fear. Selfishness, evil, etc, can overtake us if we do not shape up.
the primordal battle exists within all of us. We have to find our true self, and work strongly so it does not take us over.
Nikosv, your darkness came out on this thread. This was your double trying to show you, where you need to work.
We cannot simply imagine us as beings of light, we have to become beings of light.
Stick around and you will learn. If you dont want to speak much thats fine. I didnt speak for a very long time. I took a long hiatus.
I speak when ready, and I am ready.
I've only got one shot.
We only get one shot.
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Stick around and you will learn. If you dont want to speak much thats fine. I didnt speak for a very long time. I took a long hiatus.
Actually you 're loud and massive today and yesterday that I can't speak easily. ::)
You take us by the balls; if it's an expression. ;)
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Actually you 're loud and massive today and yesterday that I can't speak easily. ::)
You take us by the balls; if it's an expression. ;)
rotfl!
I don't mean to... lol :)
I guess I'm just very passionate about the spiritual.
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"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: those with loaded guns and those who dig."
A message from my double, seeing as you asked.
If you google that, you'll see where it comes from - how I found it was the nudge from my double.
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If you google that, you'll see where it comes from - how I found it was the nudge from my double.
Nice, its so fitting lol.
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.....
There is another saying as well...
That there are two kinds of people on the warrior path, those who have resolved and those who have not resolved the 'feeling' of self importance.
Don Juan termed it as actual.
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I do not advocate the removal of the private self. That is a whole other thread of development, and one which is generally brought along, albeit in a chaotic and unreliable way, in our relationships and work places.
But it also has to grow in power and patience, along with our relationship with the double.
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I do not advocate the removal of the private self. That is a whole other thread of development, and one which is generally brought along, albeit in a chaotic and unreliable way, in our relationships and work places.
But it also has to grow in power and patience, along with our relationship with the double.
Yes I think it would be very difficult to do as well, destroy the ego, because then consciousness would have to come from something else.
I think shrinking the tonal yes, shrink the ego and then use it on the path, verses it using you.
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“Those who are unaware they are walking in darkness will never seek the light.” - Bruce Lee
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With all due respect...
A bud has many ways of opening.
(http://static2.davidkennardphotography.com/Img/2148-Red-Dahlia-flower-bud-opening.jpg)
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(http://buriedshiva.com.au/assets/flowers_are_many.jpg)
"So, when any particular function of the individual is taken into consideration for the purpose of effecting or producing anything, the cause has to be taken into consideration at the same time. If the cause is forgotten and the individual alone is emphasised in a particular action, it would be the source of bondage. The bondage of the individual is due to the emphasis of the individual independently of the cause which is organically connected by the very same Ātman that is present in both."
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I remember this sign. I like it.
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I dont know why this thread is called egypt . I see parallels with What is occuring in egypt and a merging self
" world" S though .
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I dont know why this thread is called egypt . I see parallels with What is occuring in egypt and a merging self
" world" S though .
Good insight rs.
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Yes I think it would be very difficult to do as well, destroy the ego, because then consciousness would have to come from something else.
I think shrinking the tonal yes, shrink the ego and then use it on the path, verses it using you.
What would be that something else?
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The ego is like a
Familiar
Tool
Of reflection
A print in water
The feeding of
Consciousness
To go beyond is advancement
like fire
In water first and second attention
When nagajuna said he left a
Middle
Way with the naga
That was an interesting statement
consciousness i see like a spark that moves in water
Yet it is the mating of the masculine and feminine to
Produce that spark in a reaction
To say the naga held a middle way in the watery world
Again caught my eye
Because of this
Dreaming second attention
First attention waking
Third attention ?
I see this :)
The travelling within a merged dream of attentions
Intelligence as gained used as a stepping stone with the spark produced by the use of both attentions
Causes a reaction
As it was said " the ibs"
reflect to the level of attention of the dreamer " a most dangerous affair "
Yet speaking of " waking dreaming third "
As the spark produced causing awareness beyond with the unified self
Then the third element is movement
Caused by " listening of senses"
To action upon sensing
The dream being non separate " spirit"
Causes us to set up the dreaming through release of control
To action ignition of senses beyond fixed range
Which will climb in intensity
the double prompts and the self acts
the combined dream attracts
Pressure , and removes obstacles through truth of ascension
In movement untill
Something unutterable occurs which challenges reality and destroys sense of reality
Upon its realisation
then one is left only with the knowledge of
A middle way
Which has no fixed point
And cannot be held
A third " point"
I cant speak anymore beyond this point :)
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Perhaps the feeding of consciousness
Might read " awareness"
Yet" she "shows
When "he "listens
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Perhaps the feeding of consciousness
Might read " awareness"
Yet" she "shows
When "he "listens
Once again good insight!
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Hi during this thread I said I would post some rules of thumb i use, (in lieu of teaching personally) how to move the assemblage point of earth within the static holographic frames, which are the eagles emanations.
DJ eagles gift
"Don Juan used to say that perception is a physical faculty that living creatures groom; the final result of this grooming is known, among seers, as "attention". Don Juan described attention as the action of hooking and channeling perception. He said that this action is our most singular feat, which covers all the spectrum of human alternatives and possibilities. Don Juan established a precise distinction between alternatives and possibilities. Human alternatives are those that we are enabled to choose as persons who function within the social environment. Our landscape of this dominion is quite limited. Human possibilities are those that we are capable of achieving as luminous beings.
Don Juan revealed to me a classificatory scheme of three types of attention, emphasizing that calling them "types" was erroneous. In fact, they are three levels of knowledge: first, second and third attention; each one of them an independent dominion, complete in itself.
(http://wallpoper.com/images/00/00/01/05/baby-fairy_00000105.jpg)
RULES OF THUMB
General overview
What you see is a reflection of the self
What is reflected must be seen to be the totality of the self and understood to be a working perspective.
The assemblage point of earth is an agreed upon general cluster of bubbles, and the adjacent bubbles you are clustered with, reflect your energetic state. There is an infinity of static frames in which you can have a moment of now in.
The world is malleable, and responds to energetic thrusts, (Your will) Take action in the directions that resonate with you. If you see or experience something unwanted, unpleasant, thank it for the lesson or contrast shown.
The singularity of the world is an illusion/There is no single world at large, only unique perceptions in time within a tonal of the times.
Your energetic thrusts form your approaching material world.
You are an assemblage point moving through static holographic frames of time
Points in terms of behavior
Neutral perspective, none judgmental
Not against things, energetic thrusts should be towards whats wanted.
Not giving your energy away, no intermediaries to spirit, re teaching entities that bind, require your devotion.
Efficient internal dialogue, should be monologue lol
"Not do knowing", knowing can mutate and change, be fluid, recognize when the past is effecting how you are viewing the present. Don't place what was, as an anchor to what will come.
Don't take the world to seriously, be as light as you can to the world around you, with body and thought.
Use infinity as a reference point, it is a fluid perspective enabler.
Be sensitive to when you are being asked to perform against your integrity.
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The assemblage point of earth is an agreed upon general cluster of bubbles
Agreed upon by whom?
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Agreed upon by whom?
The tonal of the times, and the nagual, Any moment in time is your reflection,
micro=personal, immediate viewed emanations, includes dreaming.
macro=group, emanations at large= world, universe, the eagles reflective furrow of infinite time and space.
Luminous alignment, is an agreement, though we may not agree on things Michael, we still have agreed to share this particular cluster of emanations. From my perspective though there are an infinity of Michaels and I will align with the one that is most beneficial for the moment.
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Let me look at this: my AP would seem to me to be a point prescribed by my own attention and will. I accept it is influenced by the world and people around me, but it's not really the collective bundle of APs of beings within my world. It is definitely influenced by those collective APs, but actually it is in essence a personal point.
So I would be inclined to think of the earth's AP as being personal to it - again, influenced by the APs of beings alive within its field of awareness, but not a summation of those APs unless we think of the earth as non-living thing. If we see the earth as an individualised living being, then it would have to have its own individualised AP.
Thus, if I changed my AP, then that small aspect of influence I might have over the vastness of the earth, would shift, and to the extent the earth took any interest whatsoever in me, it might adapt its AP in some nano-micro way. Unless of course, my shift was only within an already absorbed range of possibilities embedded within the earth's AP route. I mean, no individual's AP is static - it shifts within a circuit of highly familiar variations.
I think the difficulty I am having is that I sense nemo, you are somehow equating the earth's AP with my personal AP. That the earth's AP is my reflection. I suppose that could be called 'my' earth, as opposed to the 'earth's' earth.
If I thought of it that way, then I would be saying the 'earth' exists only within my AP, thus for me to shift my own AP, would indeed shift the earth's AP, because this thing I call the earth, only actually exists within my own perceptual reflection.
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Maybe at this point it would be best for me to rely on some cut and past
The Eagles Gift
The Eagle- the power that governs the destinies of all living things- reflects equally and at once all those living things.
I had confronted don Juan with the question of how the rule became known to man. He explained that the rule was endless and covered every facet of a warrior's behavior. The interpretation and the accumulation of the rule is the work of seers whose only task throughout the ages has been to see the Eagle, to observe its ceaseless flux. From their observations, the seers have concluded that, providing the luminous shell that comprises one's humanness has been broken, it is possible to find in the Eagle the faint reflection of man. The Eagle's irrevocable dictums can then be apprehended by seers, properly interpreted by them, and accumulated in the form of a governing body.
His benefactor had told him that at the moment of crossing, one enters into the third attention, and the body in its entirety is kindled with knowledge. Every cell at once becomes aware of itself, and also aware of the totality of the body. His benefactor had also told him that this kind of awareness is meaningless to compartmentalized minds. Therefore the crux of the warrior's struggle was not so much to realize that the crossing over stated in the rule meant crossing to the third attention, but rather to conceive that there exists such an awareness at all.
nemo said:
What is reflected must be seen to be the totality of the self and understood to be a working perspective.
Micheal the belief in separation is not the eagles reflection, the eagle reflects everything all at once and equally. Human first attention , and second attention reflect separation.
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Micheal you made an edit after my post, i believe it to be the last paragraph. Yes to that part
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I just corrected a typo.
I'll think more about your earlier post later.
I think a lot of misconnection between us has to do with my not getting at what you mean when you refer to the earth, so that was why I tried to seek some clarification there first.
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What you see is a reflection of the self
...
The singularity of the world is an illusion/There is no single world at large, only unique perceptions in time within a tonal of the times.
Much of your other comments we have covered, and I don't have any further to say on them.
But there is a theme in your writing, some examples of reflected in the quotes above, which I find leaning towards a somewhat dangerous recent (and ancient) fashion in thought.
The fashionable thought is that the world is a personal construct, an illusion, such that everything which happens out there in the world is only your own view. There really is no climate change, no war in Iraq, no government demanding you follow laws, no cholesterol in your veins, no problems with smoking, no developer about to buy up your home and build a supermarket, no corruption, no evil man with a gun pointing at you, and no beauty or healthy society and environment which is worth engaging on behalf of to foster.
Now the difficulty is that this view is based on a deep truth, but it also is one sided to the danger of isolating a person from the world, in a mental illusion of it's own.
I don't mind what way a person constructs their own theory of everything, but it should have a consequence of engagement, not isolation, of participation, not rejection. However, if I were to posit a theory in support of that, it would be that although everything we perceive is only an option and only 'within' ourselves, that doesn't deny the existence of a reality beyond our reflection.
The earth I see may only be a reflection, but that doesn't mean there is not a being out there within which I exist, and which itself exists regardless of my existence. How I perceive it is about my reflections, but it exists beyond my perceptions. What it is in 'reality' I cannot know because I will always interpret, and when I die, my interpretation also dies, but that doesn't mean that thing I refer to as the earth dies. It is true that the world dies when I die, but that's only the totality of my world - there will remain an energetic essence out there, just that it's far beyond my obsessive view of it.
Thus we as aspirants to potentiality, have to engage and struggle with all the energetic essences we interact with beyond our own. The battle to bring about health within and without is critical to our own progress in spirit. How we do that is our choice, so to get others to simply change their mind, is perfectly fine, so long as you realise you won't rid the globe of ebola by simply thinking it doesn't exist.
When I say 'ancient' above, one reference, is that this problem had to be resolved by Buddhism. They chose to classify existence into absolute reality and relative reality. Absolute reality had not separated or even existing essence, but we are forced by life to live within relative reality, and to disregard it rules in life was a bad mistake. We have to participate fully in relative reality as well as not forgetting absolute reality - to move between the two.
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It would be hard to continue without challenging your view and what you say and this has not been and is still not my intent. I knew your cup was full when I started with my view. I am quite comfortable with not continuing, so I leave it up to you in how you would like to proceed if at all. Maybe a new thread.
Monty Python - Self-Defense Against Fruit
http://youtu.be/piWCBOsJr-w (http://youtu.be/piWCBOsJr-w)
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Yes, I will continue:
To pursue the Buddhist construct on this matter:
Take the example of trying to pull a fence post out of the ground.
If I use this example symbolically as a principle I employ in all difficult endeavours:
My approach is to, at first, switch into absolute reality, whereby I visualise the post coming out easily, lying on the ground, all participants in the exercise standing around satisfied. This part of the process is very important, whereby I consciously choose the frame that is: ease of extrusion, and satisfactory conclusion.
Now, if I had enormous power, this step would be sufficient in itself. I could jump directly to that frame with no further effort on my or any participant's part. But, and this is a critical aspect, would I want to? Let's consider how CC came to meet DJ. Did it ever occur to anyone why DJ was sitting in a bus terminal? I mean, he had no need to catch buses - he could trans-locate to anywhere he wished. The answer is obvious if you think about - where is the fun, and where the opportunity for spiritual traction when you skip the mundane world? From DJ's perspective, he would have not met CC if he simply jumped to his destination.
I say, 'spiritual traction' for a purpose. Because it's not just a matter of opening possibilities for an advanced adept, it is also the very process through which we gain the power necessary to bypass the mundane road. We need the everyday struggle and concentration to built personal power.
Thus I need to push and pull the fence post, to struggle with how-on-earth-I-am-going-to-get-that-damn-thing-out-of-the-ground, precisely because that is the foundation of acquiring spiritual power. This is why DJ and DG roped CC into struggling to the limits of all their strength to dig a tree root out of the ground - they didn't even care to have it out, but they knew the struggle and effort were absolutely essential to the Path. Meaning: relative reality is not just an illusion, it is precisely the reality through which we must engage to gain access to absolutely reality, so long as we engage correctly!
Thus Nemo, what you describe is correct in one reality. But it lacks the essential counterpart of how to arrive at that reality, which is the relative reality.
(And I haven't even begun on culture - the soul of meaning. But that will have to wait another day.)
Last, I should offer you some of my seeing Nemo:
What you see is a reflection of the self
I knew your cup was full when I started with my view.
Meaning, who is the one who continues to refuse to discuss another's view in this entire thread?
Come on Nemo, get those peddles moving... there are some big hills up ahead.
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But Micheal it seems like you don't get that I see and understand your view. Its not something foreign to me, or something I disagree with even. Your emphasis is slightly skewed in that regard, just using it to invalidate another view. Which is similar to me talking Japanese cars and their attributes, while you keep bringing up how much you like European cars.
Maybe you should just go on about your view for a while, and get it out of your system, and I will then be assured that I am not mistaken, in what i said above.
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(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpg/c9826f16d7bc5e9d58c79b0b0e1930042edc40c2_r.jpg)
http://youtu.be/bOOhfS1hZVo (http://youtu.be/bOOhfS1hZVo)
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Michael, May I make a link here on this thread to a thread on another forum? This thread has over ten thousand views, which shows there is some interest in what was said here. The other thread is relevant to those that found this one of interest. Also I would like to thank you for your contributions, and I might add that how we view the self, changes how we see and interact with the reflection.
(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpg/2a3265d677becee85ee7210ef787c2378ceb468f_r.jpg)
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That's fine by me Nemo.
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That's fine by me Nemo.
Thanks Michael! My forum time is winding down, here is my skype though "nemo3.14" Wishing Julie a full recovery.
http://primeradiant.yuku.com/topic/187/Mass-movement-of-Assemblage-point-of-Earth#.VOok8eZd3vo (http://primeradiant.yuku.com/topic/187/Mass-movement-of-Assemblage-point-of-Earth#.VOok8eZd3vo)
(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpg/04f16d65bde75d7e06e60fd8112aa0ec68cfe4e7_r.jpg)
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there is a theme in your writing, some examples of reflected in the quotes above, which I find leaning towards a somewhat dangerous recent (and ancient) fashion in thought.
The fashionable thought is that the world is a personal construct, an illusion, such that everything which happens out there in the world is only your own view. There really is no climate change, no war in Iraq, no government demanding you follow laws, no cholesterol in your veins, no problems with smoking, no developer about to buy up your home and build a supermarket, no corruption, no evil man with a gun pointing at you, and no beauty or healthy society and environment which is worth engaging on behalf of to foster.
Now the difficulty is that this view is based on a deep truth, but it also is one sided to the danger of isolating a person from the world, in a mental illusion of it's own.
I don't mind what way a person constructs their own theory of everything, but it should have a consequence of engagement, not isolation, of participation, not rejection. However, if I were to posit a theory in support of that, it would be that although everything we perceive is only an option and only 'within' ourselves, that doesn't deny the existence of a reality beyond our reflection.
The earth I see may only be a reflection, but that doesn't mean there is not a being out there within which I exist, and which itself exists regardless of my existence. How I perceive it is about my reflections, but it exists beyond my perceptions. What it is in 'reality' I cannot know because I will always interpret, and when I die, my interpretation also dies, but that doesn't mean that thing I refer to as the earth dies. It is true that the world dies when I die, but that's only the totality of my world - there will remain an energetic essence out there, just that it's far beyond my obsessive view of it.
Thus we as aspirants to potentiality, have to engage and struggle with all the energetic essences we interact with beyond our own. The battle to bring about health within and without is critical to our own progress in spirit. How we do that is our choice, so to get others to simply change their mind, is perfectly fine, so long as you realise you won't rid the globe of ebola by simply thinking it doesn't exist.
When I say 'ancient' above, one reference, is that this problem had to be resolved by Buddhism. They chose to classify existence into absolute reality and relative reality. Absolute reality had not separated or even existing essence, but we are forced by life to live within relative reality, and to disregard it rules in life was a bad mistake. We have to participate fully in relative reality as well as not forgetting absolute reality - to move between the two.
This has been unresolved energetically for me so I have come back to explain how I view this reflection/self in a way that I hope brings a bit more light/attention to your concerns brought up in this post.
There was a term brought up by scout1, that I liked, which he called the 'nagual authority'. (chuckle)
We can bring up what others have said in the past, and say this or that point has already been seen and seers in the past have mapped/documented what they see. This is all good, great even, but they all have a missing context. They were all limited to there local social milieu, and when explaining things they were limited to using terms familiar to them and those they were attempting to explain things too. This becomes even harder when they would use a term like reflection, and the person already has an understanding of what reflection is. So the seers then as now would then need to bring into view what they mean by reflection, and what they mean/see when they say self.
There may be, but I have not come across some seers hashing out what the self is, and or what is meant by self reflection. It is just said/used and to each it is understood in there own way.
Today I can use the term teleport. Where Don Juan would need to say breaking continuity. My friend Lex is prone to using Buddhist terms , as my friend Scout has a fear of anything new age. This is very enjoyable for me to observe. So the question is that you have Michael. Are Scout and Lex separate from me? In Toltec terms are they energy producing beings. Like the government enforcing laws, or the developer wanting to by and develop land, as you stated. Surely these are separate from me is the gist of what you are saying.
Well yes and no. I see it like this, please if you have not go watch a video game where a person has an avatar, and is playing a game over the internet with others. That player has his screen and his avatar, but he is playing someone else with their screen and their avatar. Each screen has a complete picture but each screen is independent with a virtual representation of the other being. If the player you are observing is kicked out of the game (in whatever usually gruesome manner) The other screen or screens still exist, but the avatar no longer remains.
So how many earths are there is a relevant question, only if one has a more complex view. To many there is only one earth, one timeline one me and one you. This is a grande illusion, and for those with that view the earth will be nothing else.
Even science now is seeing the importance of the observer to what is being observed. The super position of things. We agree something is there so it is there, but in its natural state it is everywhere, and at once. Our observation of it brings it into time and space, so in a way we create, something that is already there. So the government, or developer, are not so important, once we see how they are put into place, because when that is seen, one knows how to deal with them.
Yes there is a world out there, and yes we are urged to deal with it, as part of being on it. There is though a more complex functional view available :)
(https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&ik=7e6d27c48d&view=fimg&th=14e4c21fbd85c1f2&attid=0.1&disp=inline&safe=1&attbid=ANGjdJ_mpKWv-MCQNh4Mnd38UkLv8cYJn-WfpmGkuNV1EoCkFcsn7Xtpl3rHCjj2t6Ca-8GJU_CviSH2u3zLkeE5MdRpvaC1nDeTluAAnlqauJfax89F1yC0nFoYiG8&ats=1435807144108&rm=14e4c21fbd85c1f2&zw&sz=w1022-h420)
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Not sure if I completely understand your view, or if it's any different to mine. You are saying that in the video/virtual reality game, I exist in my room, sitting at my computer, but I am observing an avatar of myself interacting with avatars of others who are all sitting in their rooms. So my avatar exists in the screens of every other player - there are many of me in the perceptual field of others, including my own, and yet there is also one me on the seat with mouse in hand. And if that one me dies, then the many also die, except that who is the 'me'? The one on the seat, or the one in every every one else's screen?
So if a train is hurtling toward me while I sit on the tracks, that train is only a facsimile in my mind, and yet it can kill me because it exists outside my perception of it. But if I had sufficient perceptual power, I could choose to be, at that moment, on a beach instead of on the tracks. The train would kill me if that perceptual vision exists only so far as my mind, but would not kill me if I had the power to migrate my physical body through the tunnel of perception onto the beach. The train would still hurtle along, but I would be somewhere else.
Is that close to your view?
This inevitably means that I could choose an earth from the infinitely available, where environmental destruction doesn't exist. Except that I am choosing an avatar of the earth as it were, and each avatar is linked to the essence of earth existing beyond its avatars, such that environmental destruction in one avatar will impact on the energetic essence earth. So all I am doing is dodging around, like the tenant, but I still have to face a reality that exists beyond my teleporting, and which ultimately catches up. All I have done is to vastly expand my field, but also all I am doing is changing the metaphor - travelling from one temple to another. This surface shifting avoids the deeper task of shifting in depth, into the core of my being, much like learning to meditate in a dream.
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Is that close to your view?
No, Lets say your emphasis is a little too, action based, used as a wind up to make your point. To spin what I am saying into what the tenant did/is doing, shows we still need to do some work Michael. ;)
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A previous interaction earlier in the thread.
7
Love / Re: *Egypt
« Message by Michael on April 04, 2013, 02:17:10 AM »
Quote from: nemo on March 29, 2013, 01:24:54 PM
Basically there is an assemblage point of earth unique to every one being choosing to be in this particular cluster of emanations
As I thought. This is your point. For me to have an AP, that AP has to exist within the earth - thus you say it is an AP of the earth personal to me.
So by moving my AP, I am also moving the AP of the earth, or rather my specific personal earth AP.
This is drawing a very long bow nemo.
Let's for argument sake say the Earth has a trillion trillion APs, of all the beings-with-AP that exist within the earth. My little one is one of those. If I move my little AP by a fraction, I am in effect creating a shift in the collective. But not if the collective is already fluid, and not if I am only moving my AP within the elasticity of the collective AP.
I don't think you can say my AP is also an AP of the earth.
(nemo) Okay lets visit this again.
Avatar = Tonal
Screen = Bubble of perception
multiple players = Cluster of bubbles
Game software / Agreed rules of the game = Eagles command to forget, time required to access knowledge.
Player develops skills to access portals = breaks continuity
Observer with the mouse gains access to the avatar = Totality of the self
Player changes game options, to computer mode = No other players
A singularity
Game Hardware = assemblage point of earth
Has nothing to do with other screens with other players.
Michael you have never answered the question of how many earths there are in your view? I have asked you a few times. I must surmise that you believe there is only one earth, so then reason would assume that there is just one big assemblage point of earth, and that earth does not come and go with the birth and death of the tonal. As you can see that is not my view.
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(nemo) The above comparison between the computer game avatar, and a tonal beings meta-morph does not say it all. Though it does hint at the basis, gives a glimpse into the workings of my view. The following shows that what I have said is consistent with what Genaro was expressing to Carlos in Journey to Ixtlan.
"No. They were people."
"People? But you said they were phantoms."
"I said that they were no longer real. After my encounter with the ally nothing was real any more."
We were quiet for a long time.
"What was the final outcome of that experience, don Genaro?" I asked.
"Final outcome?"
"I mean, when and how did you finally reach Ixtlan?"
Both of them broke into laughter at once.
"So that's the final outcome for you, " don Juan remarked.
"Let's put it this way then. There was no final outcome to Genaro's journey. There will never be any
final outcome. Genaro is still on his way to Ixtlan!" Don Genaro glanced at me with piercing eyes
and then turned his head to look into the distance, towards the south.
"I will never reach Ixtlan, " he said. His voice was firm but soft, almost a murmur. "Yet in my
feelings . . . in my feelings sometimes I think I'm just one step from reaching it. Yet I never will. In
my journey I don't even find the familiar landmarks I used to know. Nothing is any longer the
same."
Don Juan and don Genaro looked at each other. There was something so sad about their look.
"In my I find only phantom travelers," he said softly. I looked at don Juan. I had not understood
what don Genaro had meant.
"Everyone Genaro finds on his way to Ixtlan is only an ephemeral being, " don Juan explained.
"Take you, for instance. You are a phantom. Your feelings and your eagerness are those of people.
That's why he says that he encounters only phantom travelers on his."
I suddenly realized that don Genaro's journey was a metaphor. "Your is not real then, " I said.
"It is real!" don Genaro interjected. "The travelers are not real."
He pointed to don Juan with a nod of his head and said emphatically, "This is the only one who is
real. The world is real only when I am with this one." Don Juan smiled. "Genaro was telling his
story to you, " don Juan said, "because yesterday you stopped the world, and he thinks that you also
saw, but you are such a fool that you don't know it yourself. I keep on telling him that you are
weird, and that sooner or later you will see. At any rate, in your next meeting with the ally, if there
is a next time for you, you will have to wrestle with it and tame it. If you survive the shock, which
I'm sure you will, since you're strong and have been living like a warrior, you will find yourself
alive in an unknown land. Then, as is natural to all of us, the first thing you will want to do is to
start on your way back to Los Angeles. But there is no way to go back to Los Angeles. What you
left there is lost forever. By then, of course, you will be a sorcerer, but that's no help; at a time like
that what's important to all of us is the fact that everything we love or hate or wish for has been left
behind. Yet the feelings in a man do not die or change, and the sorcerer starts on his way back home knowing that he will never reach it, knowing that no power on earth, not even his death, will
deliver him to the place, the things, the people he loved. That's what Genaro told you."
Don Juan's explanation was like a catalyst; the full impact of don Genaro's story hit me suddenly
when I began to link the tale to my own life.
"What about the people I love?" I asked don Juan. "What would happen to them?"
"They would all be left behind, " he said.
"But is there no way I could retrieve them? Could I rescue them and take them with me?"
"No. Your ally will spin you, alone, "
"But I could go back to Los Angeles, couldn't I? I could take the bus or a plane and go there. Los
Angeles would still be there, wouldn't it?"
"Sure, " don Juan said, laughing. "And so will Manteca and Temecula and Tucson."
"And Tecate, " don Genaro added with great seriousness.
"And Piedras Negras and Tranquitas, " don Juan said, smiling.
Don Genaro added more names and so did don Juan; and they became involved in enumerating a
series of the most hilarious and unbelievable names of cities and towns.
"Spinning with your ally will change your idea of the world, " don Juan said. "That idea is
everything; and when that changes, the world itself changes."
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We do not live in a world of objects, what is out there, what we call the world, solar system, universe, government etc. are all the same thing.
Just to drive the point home, here is an article to back up what I have been saying from the scientific angle.
http://stormcloudsgathering.com/quantum-relativity (http://stormcloudsgathering.com/quantum-relativity)
(http://img.pandawhale.com/post-40976-Scarlett-Johansson-Lucy-gif-Im-YHRi.gif)
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labyrinth
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how many earths there are and totality of self
self as an interesting concept belonging to earth
having lived
selves finding totalities of dreams
selves finding dreams reflecting threads
totalities finding threads enter totalities of selves upon earths
upon skies
upon reflections which exist disconnected and connected
when reached
i feel the question brewing is how to enter the totality of the self
how to and be to of bindings that allow connections and interfaces with earth and the sky
totalities which are expansive enough to allow flight
like orbits which are drawn towards the sun yet passing through find all this there disbanded and accessible
moments of levity associated to truths of awareness
filaments seeking a union with self as complete
passing moments which draw out and are aware
showing back positions
and to what ?
a binding force
and how is it that intercornnected beings process on levels beyond food water
the earth
sun
leaving the question alone
miracles are things of beauty
outward and inward
seems to be about focus
meeting selves on the road
perhaps we will ascend into higher and unknown avatars
do we need to give doubles direction too
yes says the gecko
we must build bridges together
love is building bridges
philosophical views
scientific evidences
religious ascetics
and non doings to produce results
the no thing and the thing
i have walked in upon myself travelling somewhere
perhaps i look for something
is it in or is it out
perhaps when i find the answer
i will know what i have lost
for now i make a coffee perhaps another chop
in this room with this mind on this earth
silence brought my lover its true
magic exists in the earth
it comes into being through times
people and being placed time within time purposefully i insist
changing the time is one worthy journey
outward
while inwardly holding steady this precious thing
death seems to be the question beyond living
what will be waiting there to appear here or there
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nemo, what you are saying about selves seems to relate to quantum theory. However I think we may have other 'selves' according to it, but I do find we have one, actual, concrete, 'self' per se, but its 'relatively real.' :)
I think there is one earth, but perception of it too, is very unique. Like we can be looking at the same thing, but see it differently. There could be other earth like places elsewhere, but earth, being very distinct and powerful I think she stands on her own. I also see earth as sentient, not with say persona, but character. I think it is quite possible perhaps others in past knew her more spiritually whereas now we are learning much about her scientifically.
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Nemo speaks very well . Spit it out Nemo .
Perhaps it is the perspective that must shift to understand ,conducive from all sides . i would love to see it all come about ;)
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Nemo speaks very well . Spit it out Nemo .
Perhaps it is the perspective that must shift to understand ,conducive from all sides . i would love to see it all come about ;)
Yes I like the exchanges Michael and Nemo have with each other. Though I do confess, sometimes I dont know what the hell they are talking about. So I try to read a bit between the lines to get the gist of the convo. But I admit, its fun trying!
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labyrinth
Now where I was? Been so many distractions since I posted this tag, to remind me.
The world is a labyrinth. You can examine it, dissect it, inspect its secret mechanisms, but in the end, there is only one thread of knowledge that is useful. You can divine ways to transit through the labyrinth, from penetrating its structure, but finally there are only two paths: those that find the way out, and those that wander forever within the labyrinth.
This is what I have been saying in this topic since the very beginning. You can seek to explain how the mystery of being works, but like the microscope - the stronger the lens, the more you find, on and on forever. The universe is an endless labyrinth, and understanding the mechanism of how it is built, is not the same as understanding how to exit. These are two separate things.
This is because of the strange nature of this labyrinth - it changes constantly. The way out one day, is a dead end the next.
Obsession with the mechanism is a trap, because it becomes a study of a study of a study ad infinitum - that is not the way out. The way out is a totally different technique to learning how to shift the moment between frames. The priest knows how it all works, but only the magician knows how to step in an out of the whole maze. Two very different types of knowledge. But both are necessary - one uses the waves, the other the water.
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Hello Nemo :)
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i am listening
just nothing to say about what you are saying yet
we are piercing the water if i hear you correctly
sounds reasonable at a certain velocity
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Egypt is interesting as a name for the thread
So what is the only one thread useful you speak of Michael ?
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Ok
So what can be retrieved universally from such glancing sight
Those New and those old
to begin by looking at the base of the pyramid bringers of first light
next lets look at the golden tip
and now that those who would bring cream from top of receptacle to be drank by those at base
would scoff at such
next that the cream would try to then force change in the base
next that they are in no way separate as far as A.P's go
next that individually a static frame may come yet how affected would the whole be as that pyramid?
The psychological , physiological , and spiritual comes back to the lion at the foot of the pyramid
a matter for not only the intellect , also the spiritual universal being , also effecting the whole
the forsaking of the base leads to imbalance
through the tip seeking to pull away without integration
therefore despite all arguments
the integration will occur from the base despite what the head thinks
the base has hold of the whole structure
as the base has built in correctly
when it is built correctly and integrated through "use" or motion
what is seen universally falls upon the base to correct with the heads use also
not despite, integrative
what occurs the head will not necessarily like
Lets not forget the "A.P" is not some far out untouchable image as much as an entire units being
if it must extend to the whole
it must first extend to the individual
karmically speaking it then extends to the family
and other families
and if push comes to shove
the physical representation of the measure of the spirit
far exceeds that of the individual even within the spiritual individual
so with the use of new eyes must the old eyes be aligned
not in spite of and not leaving behind
however the building of the pyramid make take care of that itself presently
i believe
if you wanted to shift the A.P of the earth
then you must enter the earth with power
you must command it with energy whole
and stimulate its hidden images to life
as a being containing power alighting within crystal amplification true course
which brings about heightened oscillation
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Now where I was? Been so many distractions since I posted this tag, to remind me.
The world is a labyrinth. You can examine it, dissect it, inspect its secret mechanisms, but in the end, there is only one thread of knowledge that is useful. You can divine ways to transit through the labyrinth, from penetrating its structure, but finally there are only two paths: those that find the way out, and those that wander forever within the labyrinth.
This is what I have been saying in this topic since the very beginning. You can seek to explain how the mystery of being works, but like the microscope - the stronger the lens, the more you find, on and on forever. The universe is an endless labyrinth, and understanding the mechanism of how it is built, is not the same as understanding how to exit. These are two separate things.
This is because of the strange nature of this labyrinth - it changes constantly. The way out one day, is a dead end the next.
Obsession with the mechanism is a trap, because it becomes a study of a study of a study ad infinitum - that is not the way out. The way out is a totally different technique to learning how to shift the moment between frames. The priest knows how it all works, but only the magician knows how to step in an out of the whole maze. Two very different types of knowledge. But both are necessary - one uses the waves, the other the water.
I have simply been explaining three different views held by three different attentions, end of story. What you have been doing since the beginning is promoting your view (chuckle) Since this thread has had over 20,000 views there seems to be an interest.
I'm sure what you mean by "step in an out of the whole maze" would be of interest to some. Please explain. To me your approach to interacting with the emanations at large will be based on a second attention bias. We'll "see"
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/fd/02/9e/fd029e6c2b58998696f6c6c766d0c948.jpg)
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Aaah, this is important, M. Thank you to Nemo for highlighting it!
Obsession with the mechanism is a trap, because it becomes a study of a study of a study ad infinitum - that is not the way out. The way out is a totally different technique to learning how to shift the moment between frames. The priest knows how it all works, but only the magician knows how to step in an out of the whole maze. Two very different types of knowledge. But both are necessary - one uses the waves, the other the water.
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Two things that happened today, gave rise to some response to this question.
1. Some of my hens have scaly mite - a typical problem for poultry which irritates their legs. I have dealt with this for years, and I use the standard remedy that I researched on the Web back in the 90s: kerosene and sump oil, on their legs and on the roosts. But I thought perhaps I'd re-look it up on Google to see if there is any new treatment. (I have passed the sump oil days, but I still have some new thick engine oil around.)
On Google, I have it set up to display 50 responses to my query on the first page. I checked the first half dozen, and they all were for poultry owners who have become part of the new-age paradigm of super-sensitive to healthy living approach, which recommended using olive oil. Now this is most worthy, but unfortunately my budget does not extend to buying 20ltr cans of olive oil just to dunk my chook's legs in. So I kept looking for the pages I had seen many years ago on the standard farmer's remedy of kerosene and sump oil.
I could not find it in the whole list of 50 returned items to my search (save for a few comments at the bottom of pages alluding to the 'old' ways). This got me wondering. I ask a question of Google, and naively expect to get the answer. But Google is not interested in giving me the right answer to my question. It wants to give me the answer that most people on the internet are looking at. Truth has replaced accuracy with reflection. We have become encased in a web of reflection, back upon us, of what the majority of other people are focused on. Our vision is refracted, again and again, by all kinds of hidden agendas, until we have lost any sense of direction and purpose.
We now inhabit a world of mirrors.
2. An article in the newspaper about the effects of Climate Change on the wine industry. Quite an interesting article of how that industry is struggling to cope. But one comment took my eye. One solution, especially pursued in the USA, is to produce different varieties of grapes, and thus wine, which can adapt to the changing climate conditions of any wine producing area. Unfortunately, they can't get the customer to shift away from the standard varieties. One reason, is that the number of varieties of grape wines has become a problem in itself. Buyers are experiencing 'choice fatigue'.
We are faced with a level of choice that sabotages our ability to act.
I may have mentioned something similar in this long thread, from an experience in my youth, when very stoned at a party once, I became aware of my consciousness standing at a multiple crossroads of infinite choices. The more I looked, the more possibilities presented before me - a point of pre-decision facing a complete surrounding of doorways, any of which I could enter, and my life would forever change accordingly.
I experienced that as ultimately debilitating. It sucked all the energy out of me. I realised, that the only way to live was to deny the ultimate potential available, to select just one option and move! Don't stand still at the centre of a star, gazing at the infinite: ACT, and find the infinite through action. What we choose to do is not the issue - it is how we do it that changes our future.
Each of these examples demonstrates that the dimension of the Second Attention is not the path to freedom. It is the path into the bush, not the path through the bush.
The world has become more and more ensnared in the belief that we can simply choose any reality - they are all as equal, and none more real than another. This has caused a mental illness in society, where our collective agreements and understanding, which we take for reality, are becoming increasingly involuted - we are spinning deeper within our own reflections, and further from objective reality and truth.
The task for those who still yearn for something definably real, to use as a reference point for life, has become extremely difficult: we don't trust anyone, or anything, any more. This leads to depression and walking the edge of suicide, because death at least is real - isn't it?
This is what the ancient thinkers of India called Maya.
There is a way through the maze. It doesn't spring from words and ideas, but from the spirit of one who has found the spring. One who has struggled upstream in the maze of reflections, and finally located the spring of life. If you have found that spring, then Maya is at your disposal. If you haven't found that spring, you are at the disposal of Maya, and no matter how clever and insightful your 'seeing', it is ultimately false, for although you see a fragment of reality, you don't see the path through the bush.
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This is what we have been saying all along.
Talking and thinking is not the way.
I would argue that too much explaining is a maze in itself, but that's beside the point.
Only the way is the way.
The way to The spring is to walk there. Barefoot.
Staff in hand.
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There is a way through the maze. It doesn't spring from words and ideas, but from the spirit of one who has found the spring. One who has struggled upstream in the maze of reflections, and finally located the spring of life. If you have found that spring, then Maya is at your disposal. If you haven't found that spring, you are at the disposal of Maya, and no matter how clever and insightful your 'seeing', it is ultimately false, for although you see a fragment of reality, you don't see the path through the bush.
hmmm very guruish. :o This has been your point all along, i get that. got it a long time ago.
It's also very much written from a second attention bias, but you can't "see" that can you?
For instance, "seeing" is "seeing the flow of things, energy directly".
In the second attention then something false must have a truth somewhere else, but truths and falsehoods fall away in the bias of the third attention. That has been my point, it's not that each bias is right or wrong or better than another each bias has it's view, and each functionaly results in different actions taken/choices made and why.
Also and this is a most important part of your post
I may have mentioned something similar in this long thread, from an experience in my youth, when very stoned at a party once, I became aware of my consciousness standing at a multiple crossroads of infinite choices. The more I looked, the more possibilities presented before me - a point of pre-decision facing a complete surrounding of doorways, any of which I could enter, and my life would forever change accordingly.
I experienced that as ultimately debilitating. It sucked all the energy out of me. I realised, that the only way to live was to deny the ultimate potential available, to select just one option and move! Don't stand still at the centre of a star, gazing at the infinite: ACT, and find the infinite through action. What we choose to do is not the issue - it is how we do it that changes our future.
The third attention works with infinite choices, your focus here is on the future, and is very linear in thought,(note your use of forever) this is first and second attention bias. The third attention is not linear, and the past can be changed, both are fluid in a fluid construct, but its not an attention that is easily reached, or understood it seems.
Okay a hope that clarifies our difference for those who may come and read this thread.
Lily, words can give readers a boost, that boost is a gain in energy, and that extra energy works like a key to access portals out of linear time and space. But yes much maze like reading around, I get that too.
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well there's a guy here who started talking about chicken mites today and having bought a bag of some stuff crushed rock or something for 30, 40 dollars . he said lime is cheaper around 7 dollars a bag ,
he is talking about them mites being on the ground and then biting people I believe .
I made them chicken soup , and then a woman stuck her head in and said she didn't eat chicken , wouldn't eat animals , so wouldn't eat soup
then I said well animals would eat you if they had a chance ,
now they put the music on playing an old song called stumbling in .
and I thought maybe the answer to the puzzle may have been placing the chicken legs in the grape growers wine .
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https://youtu.be/iGaF4tKUl0o
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Michaels words are wise here.
A butterfly was waiting by a stream , he saw a reflection of the sky ,
The sky was also a galaxy ,
Butterfly saw the space between stars , how the light was coming , the water too ,
Butterfly was larva, pupa , butterfly
Maybe pupa remembered joining , maybe larva remembered water , butterflies wings opened ,
Flew in sky ,
I do have the stories not always the words ,
I paint like a child with a finger in the sky .
Nemo he is also telling you the truth .
I like you both very much , I appreciate both of your words ,
I see the truth , words run out of road , and then must find a new road ,
I want you all to find the road into the sky,
Time can pass through the space through the sky in different ways ,
I am a butterfly who once was larvae ,
I am a butterfly who knows now how to fly ,
I am a butterfly who listens for truth ,
I am a butterfly who likes to hear how other people hear ,
I hear what is needed , and fly the right way ,
The reflection in the stream is the sky ,
The stream has become polluted ,
Although the sky still plays in the stream ,
All flight is not the same way ,
For some the reflection is maya ,
Regardless of the space between and the flight ,
I do not know all the words of India or China so I listen carefully for their truth ,
We are lucky to have Michaels wisdom ,
The spirit to fly from Maya is fresh and strong ,
It is inside your seed to choose , what chooses must grow strong , then what is reflected in the water meets the sky , is not trapped merely in the water from old ,
By the same space between ,
There is not enough time nemo anymore , for these types of ideas to clash , you can give your opinion regardless if first getting an agreement , your spirit grows and you learn same for Michael ,
I have seen how this plays out in history ,
The elephant in the water has many limbs , and a reflection ,
Why run out of road if the elephant will also stand on it's own
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That's a rather impoverished response Nemo. I'm sure you could step up to a more elucidatory response than that.
To call on the Third Attention is like saying, "My daddy is bigger than your daddy".
If you have a purpose in reigniting this thread, you should be prepared to do more than reply with a puerile carp at my post, which even you should agree employed a considerable degree of effort to explain a difficult subject.
Truly, I expected more of you Nemo. You are not without a few neurons, put them to work, and cease this fatuous posture - match my effort with yours, at least.
Here, I'll help you shuffle those neurons a little - god knows you are capable of it, thought I suppose age is affecting them.
Third Attention: YOU CAN'T GET THERE FROM HERE!
My focus has nothing to do with the Second Attention (didn't I make that clear). It is about the First Attention - the Attention too many wannabes forget to nurture and cultivate. We are born into a body that will die! Use that body, it is OUR TICKET.
Now, show us your metal, methinks you spend too much time with sycophants. Grow a pair and shine your spirit for us - give us a gleam.
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When all thoughts
Are exhausted
I slip into the woods
And gather
A pile of shepherd's purse.
Like the little stream
Making its way
Through the mossy crevices
I, too, quietly
Turn clear and transparent.
Ryokan
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Third Attention: YOU CAN'T GET THERE FROM HERE!
You must not be familiar with the third point of reference?
When I have time I will give a more elaborate reply, but I may need to post a few words that you use, and ask what you mean by them. We don't use the same meanings for the same words at times it seems.
Also my intent was to make clear to people who read this thread whenever they might do. To understand when you summarize this thread like you did, with "labyrinth" that it is a conjecture on you part rather than an understanding of what I have been saying. Conjecture may not be the right word, maybe a digression is better. Not so much to fire up interaction with you, because I do feel like someone talking about one thing and you commenting inappropriately. A good analogy would be I have agreed to talk about basketball, (attention/w/view) but you keep talking rugby and what you say doesn't give me the feeling you are grasping basketball. Though confusing as it might be, it may still be of some benefit.
Ryokan said:
When all thoughts
Are exhausted
I slip into the woods
And gather
A pile of shepherd's purse.
Like the little stream
Making its way
Through the mossy crevices
I, too, quietly
Turn clear and transparent.
This is a lovely prose/poem by Ryokan, To me this in Toltec terminology is becoming formless. Is that something you believe I have not achieved? (chuckle)
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What does real mean to you Michael?
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Michael said:
The universe is an endless labyrinth, and understanding the mechanism of how it is built, is not the same as understanding how to exit.
What do you mean by exitin the context from this quote, to where, what, etc?
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What do you mean by death?
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What do you mean by world?
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What do you mean by universe?
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What do you mean by attention?
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A good analogy would be I have agreed to talk about basketball, (attention/w/view) but you keep talking rugby and what you say doesn't give me the feeling you are grasping basketball.
That's the best thing you've said so far nemo.
This offers you a consistent and (for your mind) excellent excuse from engaging with my critique. But it goes further, it means you can't engage, full stop. All you can do is put your view. You block out any attempt to have a conversation: your view is in your words, no one else's words are relevant.
You think this thread has been about explication of your view. Any attempt by me to either agree or disagree is negated. You are happy, when I ask you to expand on a point, but as soon as I either elaborate or challenge, you claim my words are about something totally different. So in fact, this thread has been a long display of your personality. Nothing to do with your view at all. The point has been all along, that your are incapable of thinking collaboratively.
Whenever you ask a question, the purpose of asking is to demonstrate how the answer is incorrect, whatever that answer is. The reason, is that you must maintain your superiority at any cost. Not unusual. I wouldn't bother replying at all if it weren't for a certain quality of style you have.
Every time I respond to you, I know how you will react, and the quote above explains that. I recognised this from the first few posts of this thread. But there is something else going on here...
Nonetheless, here are my answers:
Reality. Understanding what is reality, is the final point of the inner path - a point that evolves endlessly. It passes through veils, again and again. But it is the ultimate quest - to seek reality. It is the direction more than the understanding, that is critical.
Exit. To exit from unreality, fantasy, enchantment, dream, projection. To exit is to seek reality.
Death. There are two deaths, the death of the soul and the death of the body. First we deal with the dying soul. Once the soul has died, we are free, and then we deal with the death of the body sans attitude. On the inner path, the first threshold is the Portal of Death. This in fact, means the death of the soul, but alas, we don't know that, so we have to engage with the body's death. If we belong to the chosen few, we survive the body's death and we live on with a dead soul, or rather, a dead pseudo-soul: one that was constructed for us by others.
But death means more in symbolic truth: it means the end. Only by confronting the end of anything can we begin to comprehend the reality of that thing.
World. I tend to use this word to specifically refer to our 'world'. Not the universe or the earth. It is the composite whole of our 'agreement'. Thus for those who have not passed through the Portal of Death, the world is absolutely everything. For those who have passed through the Portal of Death, the world is everything we know. The difference being that such people have had their shell cracked, and thus they now incorporate the reality of the unknown within their sphere of possibility - ie they live with visceral uncertainty as a constant. But still - the world is the known.
Universe. I tend to employ this non-scientifically. It incorporates the unknown as well as the known.
Cosmos. When I do use this, I also do it unscientifically, incorporating the unknowable, unknown and known.
Attention. In general: the focus of perception. In the jargon of the inner path people, it holds a specific meaning. Attention is an acquired capacity to concentrate. In fact, it is a very loose word which enfolds a precise practice. First we focus, then we learn to desire, which sustains focus. Then we apply rigger, which creates concentration. Then we apply suffering, which brings power into our attention. Then we learn freedom through failure, which brings the whip into attention. Lastly, we acquire knowledge, which converts attention into intent.
But when used as in First Attention, the word attention means all that we perceive within the energetic boundaries of the three 'attentions'. These are three capacities for perceiving within us, and they are separated by an energetic wall. We can learn to penetrate that wall, and bring the three perceptions into one view, but that is an achievement which belongs to realisations of a layer of being beneath the energetic boundaries. It in no way denies the existence of those boundaries for those who exist in the body-enclosed reality. Attention here means a total perceptual existence.
Oh well, for the few who can grasp it: we are made up of three components. Firstly, we are passive perceivers. Secondly we are the perceived. Thirdly, we are wind - activators. The three attentions relate to the second component. Attention here means not that we perceive, but what we perceive. The First Attention is the world of hard edges. The Second Attention is the world of feeling-image. The Third Attention is the world beyond all worlds - Nirguna Brahman: existence without attributes, meaning there is nothing we can say about it. Mind you, there are the foreshores of the Third Attention, also called Saguna Brahman, within which we have pulse, intent, timbre, but that's just a specialised vehicle for those of us who enjoy excursions into the Third Attention.
Freedom. Oddly, you didn't ask me this one, and yet it is the most controversial word of all. Freedom to me, is the ability to face that 360º doorways I spoke of earlier, without losing energy. This is a master practice, and I practice it in a very carefully constructed way (which I will explain in my next book). The effect on me psychologically, is when the walls and floor separate, and I look down beneath to endless black infinity. It is a panic attack, as the 'world' disintegrates. All external reference points fail absolutely. To witness this yet hold myself together as a self-aware, self-sustaining entity in its ultimate essence, is the gateway to freedom. Everything I do in life, no matter how large or small, is done by me purely as an exercise in preparation for this experience.
Now nemo, let me ask you a question:
What is love for an adept?
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Ouch, It's a little comical to be promoting your view of me and my motivations now too.
Define for me what "reality" is from my perspective/view of the third attention. Not YOUR perspective of what the third attention view is, but using the definitions I have been using? If you have gotten your head around what "I" have been saying then it should be a cinch. If you can that would actually be great!
What is love for an adept?
unconditional
Freedom. Oddly, you didn't ask me this one, and yet it is the most controversial word of all. Freedom to me, is the ability to face that 360º doorways I spoke of earlier, without losing energy. This is a master practice, and I practice it in a very carefully constructed way (which I will explain in my next book). The effect on me psychologically, is when the walls and floor separate, and I look down beneath to endless black infinity. It is a panic attack, as the 'world' disintegrates. All external reference points fail absolutely. To witness this yet hold myself together as a self-aware, self-sustaining entity in its ultimate essence, is the gateway to freedom. Everything I do in life, no matter how large or small, is done by me purely as an exercise in preparation for this experience.
Have been rereading the thread and posted words I came across, and did not run into freedom yet:
These definitions you gave are going to very helpful thankyou.
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Love for the adept, is the earth.
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Love for the adept, is the earth.
This question was asked by you on another thread and when I asked you what your answer to this question is u replied:
No, I don't have pat answers, and I don't feel there are pat answers. I see these questions in some way plague any traveller of the Path, let alone an adept.
Here's Genero's love for the earth, from "tales of power" I have underlined a portion with a comment from me at the end.
"It's almost time for us to disband like the warriors in the story," he said. "But before we go
our separate ways I must tell you two one last thing. I am going to disclose to you a warrior's
secret. Perhaps you can call it a warrior's predilection."
He addressed me in particular and said that once I had told him that the life of a warrior was
cold and lonely and devoid of feelings. He even added that at that precise moment I was
convinced that it was so.
"The life of a warrior cannot possibly be cold and lonely and without feelings," he said,
"because it is based on his affection, his devotion, his dedication to his beloved. And who,
you may ask, is his beloved? I will show you now."
Don Genaro stood up and walked slowly to a perfectly flat area right in front of us, ten or
twelve feet away. He made a strange gesture there. He moved his hands as if he were
sweeping dust from his chest and his stomach. Then an odd thing happened. A flash of an
almost imperceptible light went through him. It came from the ground and seemed to kindle
his entire body. He did a sort of backward pirouette, a backward dive more properly speaking,
and landed on his chest and arms. His movement had been executed with such precision and
skill that he seemed to be a weightless being, a wormlike creature that had turned on itself.
When he was on the ground he performed a series of unearthly movements. He glided just a
few inches above the ground, or rolled on it as if he were lying on ball bearings; or he swam
on it describing circles and turning with the swiftness and agility of an eel swimming in the
ocean.
My eyes began to cross at one moment and then without any transition I was watching a ball
of luminosity sliding back and forth on something that appeared to be the floor of an ice-
skating rink with a thousand lights shining on it.
The sight was sublime. Then the ball of fire came to rest and stayed motionless. A voice
shook me and dispelled my attention. It was don Juan talking. I could not understand at first
what he was saying. I looked again at the ball of fire. I could distinguish only don Genaro
lying on the ground with his arms and legs spread out.
Don Juan's voice was very clear. It seemed to trigger something in me and I began to write. "Genaro's love is the world," he said. "He was just now embracing this enormous earth but
since he's so little all he can do is swim in it. But the earth knows that Genaro loves it and it
bestows on him its care. That's why Genaro's life is filled to the brim and his state, wherever
he'll be, will be plentiful. Genaro roams on the paths of his love and, wherever he is, he is
complete."
Don Juan squatted in front of us. He caressed the ground gently.
"This is the predilection of two warriors," he said. "This earth, this world. For a warrior there
can be no greater love."
Don Genaro stood up and squatted next to don Juan for a moment while both of them peered
fixedly at us, then they sat in unison, cross-legged.
"Only if one loves this earth with unbending passion can one release one's sadness," don Juan
said. "A warrior is always joyful because his love is unalterable and his beloved, the earth,
embraces him and bestows upon him inconceivable gifts. The sadness belongs only to those
who hate the very thing that gives shelter to their beings."
Don Juan again caressed the ground with tenderness.
"This lovely being, which is alive to its last recesses and understands every feeling, soothed
me, it cured me of my pains, and finally when I had fully understood my love for it, it taught
me freedom."
He paused. The silence around us was frightening. The wind hissed softly and then I heard the
distant barking of a lone dog.
"Listen to that barking," don Juan went on. "That is the way my beloved earth is helping me
now to bring this last point to you. That barking is the saddest thing one can hear."
We were quiet for a moment. The barking of that lone dog was so sad and the stillness around
us so intense that I experienced a numbing anguish. It made me think of my own life, my
sadness, my not knowing where to go, what to do.
"That dog's barking is the nocturnal [* nocturnal- belonging to or active during the night]
voice of a man," don Juan said. "It comes from a house in that valley towards the south. A
man is shouting through his dog- since they are companion slaves for life- his sadness; his
boredom. He's begging his death to come and release him from the dull and dreary chains of
his life."
Don Juan's words had caught a most disturbing line in me. I felt he was speaking directly to
me.
"That barking, and the loneliness it creates, speaks of the feelings of men," he went on. "Men
for whom an entire life was like one Sunday afternoon; an afternoon which was not altogether
miserable, but rather hot and dull and uncomfortable. They sweated and fussed a great deal.
They didn't know where to go, or what to do. That afternoon left them only with the memory
of petty annoyances and tedium, and then suddenly it was over. It was already night." He recounted a story I had once told him about a seventy-two year old man who complained
that his life had been so short that it seemed to him that it was only the day before that he was
a boy. The man had said to me, 'I remember the pajamas I used to wear when I was ten years
old. It seems that only one day has passed. Where did the time go?'
"The antidote that kills that poison is here," don Juan said, caressing the ground. "The
sorcerers' explanation cannot at all liberate the spirit. Look at you two. You have gotten to the
sorcerers' explanation, but it doesn't make any difference that you know it. You're more alone
than ever, because without an unwavering love for the being that gives you shelter, aloneness
is loneliness.
"Only the love for this splendorous being can give freedom to a warrior's spirit; and freedom
is joy, efficiency, and abandon in the face of any odds. That is the last lesson. It is always left
for the very last moment, for the moment of ultimate solitude when a man faces his death and
his aloneness. Only then does it make sense."
Don Juan and don Genaro stood up and stretched their arms and arched their backs, as if
sitting had made their bodies stiff. My heart began to pound fast. They made Pablito and me
stand up.
"The twilight is the crack between the worlds," don Juan said. "It is the door to the unknown."
He pointed with a sweeping movement of his hand to the mesa where we were standing.
"This is the plateau in front of that door."
He pointed then to the northern edge of the mesa.
"There is the door. Beyond, there is an abyss and beyond that abyss is the unknown."
Don Juan and don Genaro then turned to Pablito and said good-by to him. Pablito's eyes were
dilated and fixed; tears were rolling down his cheeks.
I heard don Genaro's voice saying good-by to me, but I did not hear don Juan's.
Don Juan and don Genaro moved towards Pablito and whispered briefly in his ears. Then they
came to me. But before they had whispered anything I already had that peculiar feeling of
being split.
"We will now be like dust on the road," don Genaro said. "Perhaps it will get in your eyes
again, someday."
Don Juan and don Genaro stepped back and seemed to merge with the darkness. Pablito held
my forearm and we said good-by to each other. Then a strange urge, a force, made me run
with him to the northern edge of the mesa. I felt his arm holding me as we jumped and then I
was alone.
Michael, I was looking forward and then followed your blog trip to india. At the beginning you spent some time
on the beach. While there you complained about how the beach had changed from what you thought it should be
and how the wind surfers etc were not to your liking. My thought at the time was I would never complain about
where I was like that, and to complain as you did showed me that you did not know what I know about what thoughts
like that can do, especially with the emotional charge of disapproval behind it.
Before you left we discussed Kashmir, and I spent some effort at the time explaining that there is not a fixed Kashmir, and your beliefs would determine which Kashmir, in an infinite pool of Kashmirs you would engage with, if you went there.
This boils down again, to the question "how many earths there are in your view?"
Having said that, this love for the earth, you give as your answer to what love is for an adept, is borrowed from this passage above. In action though on a very deep level you have not grasped the unconditional aspect of that love. You seem more at odds with the earth, than the profound love for it that Genaro displays.
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Nemo ,
Why not pull the lint out of your belly button
Mix it with some ear wax
Light a fire
And say what you have to say
Without back and forward who said what
Politicking
I told you there is no time
There is no time
If you have the words
Don't keep acting like Michael is too stupid to hear them
And just say them
Before I metaphorically ro shambo your bollocks
Into action
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runningstream, I truly believe that Michael does not grasp what I have already presented, with words a few different ways already. It's interesting to offer three defined views that three defined attentions hold as their MO and then not be able to point out that a comment or action comes from a certain attentions view, as I have defined them without getting abuse.
To Michael the question "what is love for an adept" seemed important, not because he is interested in my answer, but because he wants to give his answer. That's plane to see is it not?
Now, yes it's getting a little uncomfortable, would y'all like me to discontinue?
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No
You are both correct merely starting from different ends to reach the same point
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I am not in disagreement with your response to love nemo.
I was merely putting my own view, which in now way negates your response..
Yes, the thought originated with your quote, which I probably read about forty years ago. But it has taken me forty years to realise deeper and deeper the truth of that. And of course, the 'earth' is a more than what is commonly perceived.
You asked me some questions, and I asked you one. Now, what have you to share with us?
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I am working on a word document that I will cut and paste. The difficulty is that each view is true to its natural assemblage point position. So if someone from the the first attention perspective, is communicating with a second attention person, each set of beliefs they both hold as an operating system are true to them, but they don't sit properly, even logically in the each others views and beliefs. The same is true with with the third attentions beliefs/view. I deal daily with a first attention person in my life, I can see the boundary of beliefs that create her world, and when talking with second attention individuals again their boundary of beliefs are apparent. Each view has it's working operational field, each view is true to itself and those that operate within it.
My intent here was to place a map so to speak to what i believe is the operational field of the third attention. What works against that being grasped firstly is the energy one has at their call, and the other is the working system that each attention clings to by it's very nature. You emphasis the double the and how it can be engaged, how getting to it ensures the continuation of the self past death, quite and achievement. What one has as a belief of what the self is then would be an important aspect of this.
The first second and third attention have differing beliefs on what the self is. Then what is surviving, how it is, and where is it, and what it is engaging are all going to come down to the energy and beliefs of the attention one wields. Beliefs form alignment, so what one believes then is important.
I have said all this already in a few different ways in this thread, so what I am working on is going to be more comprehensive and will take some time. Though I think there is enough here for those that can to get it, to get it. Getting it means the spirit has descended and has agreed to to let an awareness engage aspects of the self not apparent to first and second attention views.
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I think we get it, nemo.
Communication is an art. It seeps through from many different levels and sinks in the same way. Floats down and over and around the recipient.
It requires both the speaker and the listener to be open and responsible.
If you ask me, you and Michael and runnignstream have done wonderful jobs delivering your messages. Thank you, all
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Great
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Is love really unconditional for passive aggressive assholes moreso than straight talking ones ?
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No they are definitely assholes more so , straight talking assholes have the option of good placement towards a greater good outside of their own mirror , engagement begins and its about breaking the fixation of their first attention mirror
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Nemo when were wise enough to hear how brilliant you are please proceed , asshole
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Its heart that holds the sword
Brings the two sides together to fuse
Otherwise the mirror inside might receive the blows
Its a firey sword knowledge
I'm not sure about ignorance except
It's probably nor so firey
Fire sure is a big responsibility
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So nemo what's going on for you ?
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So nemo what's going on for you ?
What going on is that I am sad that friend has moved into a type of behaviour that diminishes both of us.
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Bah , don't feel alone , still friend , when I played foot ball as a child they tried that rough get up and have a go talk with us , it never worked with me .
Then I never played again. However they were trying to get us to do our best. Like me with you .
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This games so important I need to hook your intent and that takes fire , so whatever that's gonna take for you nemo . take everything I say metaphorically literally.
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If you'd like a metaphor , try the difference between a new age limp noodle wanna be Buddhist , who's position in the earths awareness is a bit like a computer that repeats Buddhist phrases when you push its buttons , yet can't function outside those terms when questioned what those premises mean to live by .
Then a warrior who stands upon their function because their position within the earth is love , so they fight for their life force and their bareing witness to their journey .
They need to adapt their function , not hit the button only to convey their path in their own story.
Then you have to understand my horror and urgency , then understanding that without delay do your best in which ever way you see fit .
That is because I see enough because I m detached enough to know , when I know, I cannot do nothing ,
My knowing is attached to my doing .
And I'm stood upon my fire , as you are its burning you to pass it on. I'm helping you . it is important to do what you came to do in this case and pass with your fire .
How's the word document going .
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I cannot give you what youve asked for
I've tried encouragement I've tried assistance
I've tried patience
It is the most bizarre thing to be accused by somebody
Of what they themselves are doing
I do not know how that paradox works
I can give a clue
The wind is facing inward
Don't bother clinging to my words and trying to bend them to that wind
Travelling backwards with them to find what you want to see
Find your own words and present them
If I pour petrol on fire now its because its the option left before you find what you like
Which is a lie
While I am stood on truth
If truth burns you should ask why
Michael already knows he an asshole
He doesn't need you to tell him
I can be one too
You seem to think your a special asshole
Why not be an asshole for the right reasons
Why not say what you want to say without acting like
Everybody else is an asshole endlessly when its because your one
There is nothing you've said that I haven't understood so far
Stop treating me like an asshole when im not being one
Here nemo is a bear
I have followed closely the honey pot here
I have no time for old fart Buddhist ex warriors
Who want to sit around and relish their genius
When its freely given
Ex warrior Buddhist like that I don't care and wonder why they don't just leave and shut up
Sure we need to remind ourselves certain things
Then there's communication
If being right means being pushy
Then here
The fire goes all the way up into the dreamers water with the wind
If you don't like my opinion
Then I couldn't give two shits to hear yours either
If being a third attention warrior means
Not accessing what's been fused at your disposal
Infinity
I don't know everything
I'm willing to hear
If you think hearing requires some other kind of payment
Enjoy talking to yourself
At least I know I've been impeccible
And tried any way i could
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I won't be able to be an asshole for too much longer I don't dream there often any more
There are very pressing issue's that require sobriety and balance.we can't go down there too long , its serious business.
Who knows michael might even tell us about the thing about the way out being through the water , I'll tell you about anything you'd like to know . that's useful.
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How's the word document going .
I am reducing it in size and adjusting it to be less likely to misconstrued as best I can. It was about 13 pages long (chuckle)
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(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpg/35116061bae15c7d0c5fb49a57c3f165981f7a7e_r.jpg)
(http://www.iali.com.tw/dreamworking/images/fig1.jpg)
What I have been offering is how to effect affect the emanations around you. In a different more expanded way than the first attention. As this pertains to the physical reality it does fall outside what is typically understood as the second attentions luminous out and away from the physical world movement to freedom.
This version I am giving of interacting with the emanations at large here in the physical maybe should be called a version of the third attention or even something all together different like the forth attention. Mostly because everyone already has their version of what the third attention is, and calling it something else saves having to change ones view of what the third attention is to them.
Having come from a second attention approach myself I feel that what I have been talking about is easier to understand, if you have come from that understanding first, as varied as that approach is if you have been attempting to move to the intent of the dreaming, energy body, astral body, or whatever particular version you have come up with that's your unique way. The intent is to move away from the field of expression of the first attention. This is the second attention approach, as I define the second attention. Which is a luminous not physically based approach.
Michael recently posted about war and though he is attempting to access freedom through entering the void, he still has a concern for the soul of man and the war going on for the soul of man on the version of earth he is on while he tries in his way to escape these very emanations he is concerned about, through what I would call a second attention luminous solution to being in the grasp of the first attention cluster of emanations first attention calls the world, earth.
It is exactly this chasm between what he is attempting to do as a luminous being and his concern for the soul of man that can be overcome by not leaving this earth through the luminous solution. Typically if we have had ascended masters they have done exactly that ascended, they have left this field of illusion and moved away from it. Where have they gone? To freedom? To hyper dimensional space? Dome of the naguals? Out of linear time? Take your pick, it's a crap shoot, because they don't generally have the freedom to come back here and tell us. That includes Don Juan Matus too.
Why is the soul of man under siege? Because beings as a condition of being born here are required to forget who they are. Then, because the first attention is the dominant attention as a natural consequence of being born into clustering fields of expressions of first attention intent, the base attention an emotional body can have, it is the most manipulable attention and is therefore very manipulated by other first attention beings but primarily second attention beings that know more about attentions but don't have the moral base to not manipulate first attention beings and steal their energy. What is stealing their energy entail? Directing their choices through manipulating which alignments they would use reason to make. How are those alignments made? By making sure their attention is dominated by things like war or sports, and the need for energy in the form of money.
So if Michael is concerned about the soul of man, why is he leaving the battlefield behind?
Michael Said:
This offers you a consistent and (for your mind) excellent excuse from engaging with my critique. But it goes further, it means you can't engage, full stop. All you can do is put your view. You block out any attempt to have a conversation: your view is in your words, no one else's words are relevant.
You think this thread has been about explication of your view. Any attempt by me to either agree or disagree is negated. You are happy, when I ask you to expand on a point, but as soon as I either elaborate or challenge, you claim my words are about something totally different. So in fact, this thread has been a long display of your personality. Nothing to do with your view at all. The point has been all along, that your are incapable of thinking collaboratively.
Whenever you ask a question, the purpose of asking is to demonstrate how the answer is incorrect, whatever that answer is. The reason, is that you must maintain your superiority at any cost. Not unusual. I wouldn't bother replying at all if it weren't for a certain quality of style you have.
Every time I respond to you, I know how you will react, and the quote above explains that. I recognised this from the first few posts of this thread. But there is something else going on here...
And he also said this:
Quote from: nemo on March 20, 2013, 09:21:19 AM
So would you like to hear what I have to offer?
There's no need to ask. Put your case.
If you put a view that I haven't considered I'm open to review of my own position.
Although I don't agree with your whole summary Michael , you seem to be putting the onus on me with this type of post to defend myself personally. While to me all along this long thread you have maintained a position you already held before i said anything. I knew what that was, as I know what that is now, as frustrating as that is for both of us. It's you that does not understand me, not the other way around.
Comprehending what makes macro reality and our own personal micro reality.
Michael, what you believe and what the actual truth is comes up against what I believe and what the actual truth is. There is the actual truth and then there ls the truth as we both see it. Your view of me and what my motivations are, exist in your version of “me” as you see me. What is the actual truth?
Think about that before you read on...........
Is there an actual truth? Is the truth what you believe or is it what I believe. Is there an independent actual truth? What I have been saying / attempting to get across is that there is no actual truth independent of beliefs, and if you believe your truth over mine, then that will solidify you and your beliefs to the emanations at large, and that view will be dominant, you will with the power of your beliefs manifest a nemo where you are correct and the nemo you believe exists will actually manifest for you.
I'll say it again, the power of your beliefs will align you with a version of nemo that fit your beliefs.
So as per my description, I am aligning with a version of Michael that grasps the power of my beliefs.
There is no ego here, you are welcome to be a version of yourself that is correct in what you are saying. What you are not grasping as the version of Michael that fits your beliefs is that both versions of nemo and Michael exist. In my view there is no way around a Michael that continues to believe as the Michael does in the post above. He will eventually find himself moving down a path where he is correct in the things he says. (chuckle)
To me beliefs mould the emanations around you, and you will get the nemo you are expecting. Unless the spirit uses those same emanations to effect your beliefs. I can do nothing for you or anyone reading these words if the spirit is not working on you independently. To change your beliefs.
This is were infinity and reality get interesting, in terms of my view.
To believe your truth over mine and to convince me that your view of what the truth is, is the correct/right/more true/ factual one, then to do that you would need to convince me, enough to change what I believe. This is not actually changing the actual truth, because there is none, what would need to change is my belief in what you have to say. Then as my beliefs change I would be more and more aligned with truth as you see it. This is done all the time, whether a being knows the power of beliefs or not. If the spirit gets involved with confirmations of what is being said by you or anyone, then they would wield more power to me and I would be bound to listen. Spirit has not given any indications that I should listen to your version of truth Michael. You can say that spirit has not given you any indications that what I have said has come with confirmations also, and I am actually fine with that, if that's the case.
So to me it's difficult to argue that my truth/view is more correct, and or that another is wrong. All I can do is attempt to see the truth from another s perspective, and what the spirit has in hand as far as dealing with the emanations being presented . This is actually quite easy for example: my wife holds a first attention view/truth and i can “see” it daily and act accordingly.
I suppose for me it's been beneficial to establish a view/truth of the difference between third and second attention because for the longest time I was a second attention warrior. As that view evolved I started to get downloads of info on attentions. So when I offer it here it's been the first time I wrote it down, though it's been a functional operational view i have used for years, maybe about ten or so.
When I say something is written from a second attention view as I define it. It's a second attention view as I define it, so yes it's about me and my personality, and more than that it's a well defined view/truth that I use daily. I use it to drive with my vehicles through the emanations at large without a drivers license for ten years or so, I use it to move the assemblage point of the earth. Whether I can get that across to whomever reads my words is more up to their personal power than how well I explain it because ultimately it's about whomevers relationship with spirit. If the spirit isn't involved then I would get no confirmations and I would know that what I was involved in here was of no benefit to you or anyone that may come and read this thread.
Having said that I would like to say in my view/truth there are no emanations at large more real than any other, there are only energetic probes of awareness exploring those endless emanations. No matter what attention level that probe carries through a furrow of time they live through, those emanations require that particular attention level for them to be explored the way they are being explored, or they would not be that furrow of time. Put another way there are no emanations more or less real, there are only furrows of time being explored where the illusion is that something can be more real than another, again this is written from my view/truth.
Also I would like to mention, in my view the black void is not the way to access infinity. There are no emanations that are not infinity, so reading this is just as much infinity as anything else. The black void though is a way to jump out of linear time and space, a portal so to speak to other emanations where you break your continuity in time, but you don't need to break your continuity to access infinity.
The black void should be looked at in my view as emanations at large, they are not outside of those emanations. They are just emanations that are skimmed by awareness as a black void. You can use them to get to other interesting emanations, but one of the most interesting cluster of emanations are here the ones you are gravitated to as you read this, our world here is a full and wonderful place for awareness to be. The black void is actually boring in comparison, why? Because it's a void. :)
Michael said:
The world is a labyrinth. You can examine it, dissect it, inspect its secret mechanisms, but in the end, there is only one thread of knowledge that is useful. You can divine ways to transit through the labyrinth, from penetrating its structure, but finally there are only two paths: those that find the way out, and those that wander forever within the labyrinth.
In terms again in my view, this is not an applicable view. Firstly there is no world only clusterings of emanations, and those emanations are infinity. There is no way through/out of infinity, but to not feel lost as you move through those emanations is to behave in a manner that allows those emanations to interact with you through whatever ways you have developed, for me i get synchronous, confirmations, from spirit.
To explore those emanations as a first attention being though is no less valid a life. Though it's limitations are obvious to those that can see attentions. Even with it's limitations a first attention being could for instance have such a profound belief in the christian god that they could access emanations that support a miracle cure etc.
"seeing" attentions to the seer holding my view would “see” that no attention is more valid or real than another, awareness. The first attention is source exploring the love for cats, or dogs, or conditional love for a mate etc. Hard to experience love for a cat from from a first attention view as a second or third attention. Why because each attention has a commenserate view of the emanations “cat” and the energitic aspect of “love”
Collaboration:
Michael, I don't see how a collaboration between our two views could be done. What could we collaborate on?
Accessing the doubles intent maybe? For me the fact that you have not answered how many earths in your view there are remains a deal breaker to collaboration. It is the base first step and fundamental attribute of my views way of accessing the emanations at large. Not answering that question and coming to me with your seeing, experiences, logic, reason, view of me, whatever becomes invalid in my view. They are by my definition limited in the scope needed, to use the great expanse of emanations in the way that I do.
Energetic Blow-back from Feelings of Superiority or inferiority: I wrote about this in detail in a closed forum, I will get permission to cut and paste it.
In short I look for confirmations from spirit in all that I do. I may stray from time to time but I do right the ship if I feel or get an energetic hit from spirit that my energy is being aggressive, though I did get a fortune cookie last wednesday that said “don't agree just to keep the peace” .
Finally I wrote quite a long reply to your post about the grapes and climate change, Chickens with mites, and I was unable to write it or rewrite it in a suitable fashion to say what i wanted to say in a way that was not just me dumping on what you said.
In short your examples in that post are to my definitions based on first attention not second attention, so your premise is lost by our differing definitions of what attributes each attention has. They to me are musings about the flow of things, and the limitations natural to the doings of the first attention, nothing more.
Example: The flow of things was obviously moving towards new age use of olive oil where cost was not an issue,(the new age energetic thrust is to overcome the reason/actions created be economics) economics is a first attention trap for logic and reason to dominate what emanations are accessed. To me you were looking for a cheaper remedy than what was being offered, which is simple first attention economics as per my example. I personally would use tone/sound vibrations made by my vocal chords with intent directed at the chickens to move to adjacent emanations in the expanse where the mites don't exist.
Like I said our views differ and that changes how we view the emanations at large. How we use intent to move through them, and how we explain what we are doing. I don't agree with accessing infinity through the void, exclusively. Having mapped out a way to something different more expanded in that there is no need to leave loved ones behind. Maybe calling it a third attention view causes some confusion because in CC's books the line is obscure also. So it can be called the forth attention view the view that's used to move the assemblage point of earth, but there is no assemblage point of earth for anyone that does not grasp that there are an infinity of earths one can move to.
Don Juan:
"Everything we do, everything we are, rests on our personal power. If we have enough of it, one word uttered to us might be sufficient to change the course of our lives. But if we don't have enough personal power, the most magnificent piece of wisdom can be revealed to us and that revelation won't make a damn bit of difference."
He then lowered his voice as if he were disclosing a confidential matter to me.
"I'm going to utter perhaps the greatest piece of knowledge anyone can voice," he said. "Let me see what you can do with it. "Do you know that at this very moment you are surrounded by eternity? And do you know that you can use that eternity, if you so desire?"
After a long pause, during which he urged me with a subtle movement of his eyes to make a statement, I said that I did not understand what he was talking about.
"There! Eternity is there!" he said, pointing to the horizon.
Then he pointed to the zenith. "Or there, or perhaps we can say that eternity is like this." He extended both arms to point to the east and west.
We looked at each other. His eyes held a question.
"What do you say to that?" he asked, coaxing me to ponder upon his words.
I did not know what to say. "Do you know that you can extend yourself forever in any of the directions I have pointed to?" he went on. "Do you know that one moment can be eternity? This is not a riddle; it's a fact, but only if you mount that moment and use it to take the totality of yourself forever in any direction."
(nemo), We are bursts of energy, probes from source that explore reflective furrows. Some of those probes have a prediliction to explore functional ways to maintain their awarness past death. One such way is to become an inorganic being, which is the luminous solution, which I clasify as the path mapped out by the second attention. Another way which I call the view held by the third attention, but I am not adverse to it being called a version of the third attention or the forth attention. Uses will to engage emanations at large to move down furrows of time that have no end. They are able to keep their physical and energy body using the power of will, intent and knowledge.
To hammer that point home. An irreducible truth in my view would be that any observer effects the emanations at large in their bubble of perception to the extent they are able to grasp their totality. No emanations are more real as an attention develops just the understanding of what is being observed.
The physical structure of this worlds emanations at large, viewed as a clustering of emantions. This is very complex, but I can make some general points that don't explain how it is in all it's emensity, just hints at it. The first attention dreams a solid linear in time furrow of emanations. At night during sleep, the earth dreams it's beings out of linear sequence, but also these emanations are less solid and the physics of the first attention beliefs don't hold to the doing/intent of the dreamer. Both though should be viewed (if you are going to utilize my veiw) as the earths emanations, we dream into reality the linear version of clusterings called earth, and we dream the none sequential aspects of earths clusterings of emanations in it's dream version out of linear time.
You can use intent through beliefs to access emanations at large that are the gap between the dreamer and the dreamed of this earths emanations not normally accessed by the dreamer or the dreamed. They exist as emnations at large not being lite up by awarness that has not developed the personal power to access them. Those are the emanations Genaro was accessing when he hugged/and swam in the emanations of earth. It's best imagined visually as timelines of earth that connect earths solid dream with the etheral dream of earth, a space where mixing of the two are a possibility.
This is best done incrementally in my view.
(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpg/08616f63bced5e7004268495a54d6b094047ab10_r.jpg)
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I wouldn't be surprised if Michael is writing some more mahabharata ,
He is wise enough to do these things
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Thank you nemo
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That's a good read at last nemo - will savour it over a few weeks.
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I will say something which comes from different directions
The dreamer the dreamed
The third attention
The dreamer is hooked to the dreamed
Those are hooked to the infinite
When those three come in alignment
Through recognition of mutual being
The transference and transdimensional become
More than possibility
The language of hearing occurs for the first attention being through perception
Awareness of the mind and senses
However
Awareness through art story or metaphor also
Perception of senses occurs as perception of awareness does
A dream transference also exists upon the face of the earth as a story
A story we are born into
The luminousity inside beings seeks a different language
Its business is spirit
Which becomes aware through interconnectedness
Which is awareness of more or totality
Finding totality upon expansion of luminosity
Extending beyond the physical and density
Also shows that you are all this
Infinity
The story of perception for me is like the seven fold spirit of man
The story of perception is played out upon the earth
The creation of story for spirit at the point appears to be contained within infinity
However
The story has also been placed within the earth
From outside of linear time
Placements by beings
You could also liken a simple story to whether or not
We are trapped and a simple answer no upon its opposite and viewing infinite outside of linear time
To answer
Yet
The collective spirit story exists
Traveling towards greater freedom
First from obstruction and toward love
Love being the two unified parts also dreamer and dreamed
Or first or second attention
Second attention also influenced the emanations at large
Through first running off before reconciling freedoms
Meaning of love
As having witnessed creation infinite
And not having been satisfied
Turning away from
Mutual creation
Towards covetnous
Of that other
Collectively now travelling back towards the union
Means yes the being And living of that union and co creation
And also acting within righting the imbalance
Toward reconstituting those emanations at large .
For me
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To the question
Are there infinite earths
And infinite mind rooms
Yes and no
If you turn on the television news and I do
Across the other side of the world
We may both report the same thing independently
The awareness of first attention may also transfer across to dream state through work here
And vice versa
A further alignment may be accessed within the earth
Even connected to sky
A story placed within the earth dreamspace
Compelling gravity to be fixed
To awaken the collective or spiritual family
Is to collectively awaken to a new or more aware state of dream being
To address the earth dream utilising the elements necessary to witness the horizons freedom requires
Balance
And exertion
As for the question of is exertion individually awakened towards the infinite ?
Or vice versa ,
I'm feeling what came first the chicken or the egg ,
I like to imagine from this point I utilise the infinite and I do , I meet myself on the path ahead all the time ,
Yet as spirit I am all this I am.
My observations
I know they're beliefs and I know my evidence supports then as they support me.
Progress therefore is what is supported , and what is supported is what is functionally aligned.
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That's a good read at last nemo - will savour it over a few weeks.
This is a good sample in CC's books with an explanation about rings of power. Don Juan had just appeared to apprentices of another shaman and CC as with different costumes on. From the book Journey to Ixtlan.
The place was empty; we sat at a table by a window looking out at the busy main street and ordered
our food. Don Juan seemed relaxed; his eyes shone with a mischievous glint. I felt encouraged and
began a barrage of questions. I mainly wanted to know about his disguise.
"I showed you a little bit of my not-doing" he said and his eyes seemed to glow.
"But none of us saw the same disguise, " I said. "How did you do that?"
"It's all very simple, " he replied. "They were only disguises, because everything we do is in some
way merely a disguise. Everything we do, as I have told you, is a matter of doing. A man of
knowledge could hook himself to everyone's doing and come up with weird things. But they are not
weird, not really. They are weird only to those who are trapped in doing.
"Those four young men and yourself are not aware yet of not-doing, so it was easy to fool all of
you."
"But how did you fool us?"
"It won't make sense to you. There is no way for you to understand it."
"Try me, don Juan, please."
"Let's say that when every one of us is born we bring with us a little ring of power. That little ring
is almost immediately put to use. So every one of us is already hooked from birth and our rings of power are joined to everyone else's. In other words, our rings of power are hooked to the doing of
the world in order to make the world."
"Give me an example so I could understand it, " I said.
"For instance, our rings of power, yours and mine, are hooked right now to the doing in this room.
We are making this room. Our rings of power are spinning this room into being at this very
moment."
"Wait, wait, " I said. "This room is here by itself. I am not creating it. I have nothing to do with it."
Don Juan did not seem to be concerned with my argumentative protests. He very calmly maintained
that the room we were in was brought to being and was kept in place because of the force of
everybody's ring of power.
"You see, " he continued, "every one of us knows the doing of rooms because, in one way or
another, we have spent much of our lives in rooms. A man of knowledge, on the other hand,
develops another ring of power. I would call it the ring of not-doing, because it is hooked to not-
doing. With that ring, therefore, he can spin another world."
A young waitress brought our food and seemed to be suspicious of us. Don Juan whispered that I
should pay her to show her that I had enough money.
"I don't blame her for distrusting you, " he said and roared with laughter. "You look like hell."
I paid the woman and tipped her, and when she left us alone I stared at don Juan, trying to find a
way to recapture the thread of our conversation. He came to my rescue. "Your difficulty is that you
haven't yet developed your extra ring of power and your body doesn't know not-doing." he said.
I did not understand what he had said. My mind was locked in quite a prosaic concern. All I wanted
to know was whether or not he had put on a pirate's outfit.
Don Juan did not answer but laughed uproariously. I begged him to explain.
"But I've just explained it to you, " he retorted.
"You mean, that you didn't put on any disguise?" I asked.
"All I did was to hook my ring of power to your own doing, " he said. "You yourself did the rest
and so did the others."
"That's incredible!" I exclaimed.
"We all have been taught to agree about doing, " he said softly. "You don't have any idea of the
power that that agreement brings with it. But, fortunately, not-doing is equally miraculous, and
powerful."
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(nemo) I post these excerpts from CC's books and this sermon from The reverend Lawrence M. Krauss to show the importance of intent. The known unknown and the unknowable are in play here, as he talks, he never strays into the field of action of what attention can do to emanations at large, or does not talk in terms of awareness or attention at all, but he has drawn for us the boundaries of the band of man as a scientist.
Lawrence M. Krauss (2014) "Universe from NOTHING!"
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/sbsGYRArH_w" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> (http://<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/sbsGYRArH_w" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>)
From the book magical passes
I asked don Juan on another occasion something that had been bothering me for a long time. He had
stated that the sorcerers of ancient Mexico discovered the magical passes, which were some sort of hidden
treasure, placed in storage for man to find. I wanted to know who would put something like that in storage
for man. The only idea that I could come up with was derived from Catholicism. I thought of God doing it,
or a guardian angel, or the Holy Spirit.
"It is not the Holy Spirit," he said, "which is only holy to you, because you're secretly a Catholic. And
certainly it is not God, a benevolent father as you understand God. Nor is it a goddess, a nurturing mother,
watching over the affairs of men, as many people believe to be the case. It is rather an impersonal force that
has endless things in storage for those who dare to seek them. It is a force in the universe, like light or
gravity. It is an agglutinating factor, a vibratory force that joins the conglomerate of energy fields that
human beings are into one concise, cohesive unit. This vibratory force is the factor that doesn't allow the
entrance or the exit of energy from the luminous ball.
The fire from within
He said that the Eagle’s emanations are an immutable thing initself, which engulfs everything that
exists, the knowable and the unknowable.
„There is no way to describe in words what the Eagle’s emanations really are,” don Juan continued.
„A seer must witness them.”
„Have you witnessed them yourself, don Juan?”
„Of course I have, and yet I can’t tell you what they are. They are a presence, almost a mass of
sorts, a pressure that creates a dazzling sensation. One can catch only a glimpse of them, as one can
catch only a glimpse of the Eagle itself.”
„Would you say, don Juan, that the Eagle is the source of the emanations?”
„It goes without saying that the Eagle is the source of its emanations.”
„I meant to ask if that is so visually.”
„There is nothing visual about the Eagle. The entire body of a seer senses the Eagle. There is
something in all of us that can make us witness with our entire body. Seers explain the act of seeing
the Eagle in very simple terms: because man is composed of the Eagle’s emanations, man need
only revert back to his components. The problem arises with man’s awareness; it is his awareness
that becomes entangled and confused. At the crucial moment when it should be a simple case of
the emanations acknowledging themselves, man’s awareness is compelled to interpret. The result is
a vision of the Eagle and the Eagle’s emanations. But there is no Eagle and no Eagle’s emanations.
What is out there is something that no living creature can grasp.”
From magical passes again
The shamans of ancient Mexico, according to don Juan, described intent as a perennial force that
permeates the entire universe—a force that is aware of itself to the point of responding to the beckoning or
to the command of shamans. By means of intent, those shamans were capable of unleashing not only all the
human possibilities of perceiving, but all the human possibilities of action. Through intent, they realized the
most far-fetched formulations.
Don Juan taught me that the limit of man's capability of perceiving is called the band of man, meaning
that there is a boundary that marks human capabilities as dictated by the human organism. These boundaries
are not merely the traditional boundaries of orderly thought, but the boundaries of the totality of resources
locked within the human organism. Don Juan believed that these resources are never used, but are kept in
situ by preconceived ideas about human limitations, limitations that have nothing to do with actual human
potential.
Don Juan stated, as categorically as he was able to, that since perceiving energy as it flows in the
universe is not arbitrary or idiosyncratic, seers witness formulations of energy that happen by themselves
and are not molded by human interference. Thus, the perception of such formulations is, in itself and by
itself, the key that releases the locked-in human potential that ordinarily has never entered into play. In
order to elicit the perception of those energetic formulations, the totality of human capabilities to perceive
has to be engaged.
From the Power of Silence:
Juan had maintained in the past that my knowledge and control of intent were not adequate to
withstand the impact of that sight. He had explained that normal perception occurs when intent,
which is pure energy, lights up a portion of the luminous filaments inside our cocoon, and at the
same time brightens a long extension of the same luminous filaments extending into infinity outside
our cocoon. Extraordinary perception, seeing, occurs when by the force of intent, a different cluster
of energy fields energizes and lights up. He had said that when a crucial number of energy fields
are lit up inside the luminous cocoon, a sorcerer is able to see the energy fields themselves.
On another occasion don Juan had recounted the rational thinking of the early sorcerers. He told me
that, through their seeing, they realized that awareness took place when the energy fields inside our
luminous cocoon were aligned with the same energy fields outside. And they believed they had
discovered alignment as the source of awareness.
Upon close examination, however, it became evident that what they had called alignment of the
Eagle's emanations did not entirely explain what they were seeing. They had noticed that only a
very small portion of the total number of luminous filaments inside the cocoon was energized while
the rest remained unaltered. Seeing these few filaments energized had created a false discovery.
The filaments did not need to be aligned to be lit up, because the ones inside our cocoon were the
same as those outside. Whatever energized them was definitely an independent force. They felt
they could not continue to call it awareness, as they had, because awareness was the glow of the
energy fields being lit up. So the force that lit up the fields was named will.
Don Juan had said that when their seeing became still more sophisticated and effective, they
realized that will was the force that kept the Eagle's emanations separated and was not only
responsible for our awareness, but also for everything in the universe. They saw that this force had
total consciousness and that it sprang from the very fields of energy that made the universe. They
decided then that intent was a more appropriate name for it than will. In the long run, however, that
name proved disadvantageous, because it does not describe its overwhelming importance nor the
living connection it has with everything in the universe.
Don Juan had asserted that our great collective flaw is that we live our lives completely
disregarding that connection. The busyness of our lives, our relentless interests, concerns, hopes,
frustrations, and fears take precedence, and on a day-to-day basis we are unaware of being linked to
everything else.
Don Juan had stated his belief that the Christian idea of being cast out from the Garden of Eden
sounded to him like an allegory for losing our silent knowledge, our knowledge of intent. Sorcery,
then, was a going back to the beginning, a return to paradise.
In a calm voice don Juan told me that for the very first time in my life I had seen the spirit, the
force that sustains the universe. He emphasized that intent is not something one might use or
command or move in any way - nevertheless, one could use it, command it, or move it as one
desires. This contradiction, he said, is the essence of sorcery. To fail to understand it had brought
generations of sorcerers unimaginable pain and sorrow. Modern-day naguals, in an effort to avoid
paying this exorbitant price in pain, had developed a code of behavior called the warrior's way, or
the impeccable action, which prepared sorcerers by enhancing their sobriety and thoughtfulness.
Don Juan explained that at one time in the remote past, sorcerers were deeply interested in the
general connecting link that intent has with everything. And by focusing their second attention on
that link, they acquired not only direct knowledge but also the ability to manipulate that knowledge
and perform astounding deeds. They did not acquire, however, the soundness of mind needed to
manage all that power.
So in a judicious mood, sorcerers decided to focus their second attention solely on the connecting
link of creatures who have awareness. This included the entire range of existing organic beings as
well as the entire range of what sorcerers call inorganic beings, or allies, which they described as
entities with awareness, but no life as we understand life. This solution was not successful either,
because it, too, failed to bring them wisdom.
In their next reduction, sorcerers focused their attention exclusively on the link that connects
human beings with intent. The end result was very much as before.
Then, sorcerers sought a final reduction. Each sorcerer would be concerned solely with his
individual connection. But this proved to be equally ineffective.
He asserted that all modern-day sorcerers have to struggle fiercely to gain soundness of mind. A
nagual has to struggle especially hard because he has more strength, a greater command over the
energy fields that determine perception, and more training in and familiarity with the intricacies of
silent knowledge, which is nothing but direct contact with intent.
Examined in this way, sorcery becomes an attempt to reestablish our knowledge of intent and
regain use of it without succumbing to it. And the abstract cores of the sorcery stories are shades of
realization, degrees of our being aware of intent.
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I'm not sure what your purpose is nemo, in posting all these extracts. If you wish to attract people who are unfamiliar with these books, then you have chosen the more obscure parts, which would be indecipherable to those who have not studied the earlier material.
If you are trying to inform me, I can assure you I began studying this material forty years ago, and have combed through it all in extreme detail many times during those years. Just to let you know, I have spent my adult life pursuing the intent of these revelations. But, I long ago realised, these impulses lead far beyond the ideas of Castaneda's writings. At some point, one begins to follow the original author, not the messenger.
I know perfectly well what you are speaking of, and always have since you arrive here in Restless Soma. It has never been the philosophical theory that you outline, that I have ever disagreed with.
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Post them in support of what has been said, along with the Krauss video, to help you and those that may come and read this thread 'see" ........ They say what I wish to say in more depth and less personally and therefore less likely to misconstrued.
Michael said:
At some point, one begins to follow the original author, not the messenger.
The original author is the spirit. These books are understood in more depth as one gains in energy. Though yes
at some point one can write about their own experiences and "seeing".
You have written a book, and are writing another, are they theory or direct knowing?
Michael said:
If you haven't found that spring, you are at the disposal of Maya, and no matter how clever and insightful your 'seeing', it is
ultimately false, for although you see a fragment of reality, you don't see the path through the bush.
This statement is diametrically opposed to one of the main pillars of CC's toltec offerings. "Seeing" eventually becomes direct knowing. One of the attributes of developing attention is that some achieved attentions don't just see fragments of reality, they "see" what the fragments are made of and the how and why they exist and how they can be used, and are being used, by different levels of attention.
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Yes we should not give false affection to cater to these attentions and speak the truth in their face
Should those who keep truth
The gaurdian who keeps prisoners
The guard who sets them free
The way is the truth
That's the light
Other wise
Much thunder outside
Sky bear
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Good luck on your journey Nemo
You too Michael
Much respect to you both
Seeing can also become homogenous through agreements
Based on power which is not true
I thought perhaps this understanding could bring
Although unhomogenous
Greater for all
Even such insight can fall at its own feet
That those would speak the same in diffrent terms
Believe me if I decide to be right
It will be righteous
Wishing you the best possible
Truly I do
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Hi there...In this old thread. :)
Nik, or Nikos, (or Zik :) ) ... whatever you prefer.
I feel warmth, that I could be able to talk with Endless Knot again , if it happens, and all ........
We have polar temperature here in Athens today. They also warned us of tornado winds but so far we haven't encountered it.
Best regards - (For the new year, and throughout eternity - why not)
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Right. Good job Nemo - well presented and explained. I think you have certainly got the gist of this.
Not much more to say really.
"And thus he has encountered his second enemy..."
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"And thus he has encountered his second enemy..."
The Fire from Within:
The new seers make accurate inventories and then laugh at them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2gJamguN04 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2gJamguN04)
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Nemo, hi, long time.......
Nice tube... ;D
I want to raise the point of the assemblage point without a filament (so we speak) that would confront you.
How can a planet have an assemblage point if it is a planet, a soma ...
You can think about Jupiter for example... (I may push some more lines on this having to do with human consciousness which actually don't make the Earth.)
Isn't, or doesn't assembly has to do with perception?
Thanks
~
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Chuckle I'm german and your greek, fitting video.
Thx for the good question Zik!!!!
I might add that the following could be considered a stalkers method to dreaming the earth into position.
We are used to the explanation in the books about the point of assemblage the size of a tennis ball about a 300cm back of the shoulders. It's not like that.
If you can imagine an infinity of earths each one with only one molecule out of place to the next earth. Then breaking the fixation of linear time picture yourself at the center of a cluster of spheres, u can use the picture of the flower of life.
(http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_ciencia/geomsag06_02.jpg)
this video is a lecture about quantum computing and in it he explains how they use an infinity of earths. Watch it if you have trouble with just me saying their are an infinity of earths, they actually use that in quantum computing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqN_2jDVbOU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqN_2jDVbOU)
now engaging intent and with choices you make, your personal assemblage point within that infinity of earths can move to an adjacent sphere of earth that has a slightly different arrangement of molecules. Using your third eye invision what you prefer, (seeing what you don't want and pushing away from it will actually magnetize you to what you don't want).
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/76/ac/ea/76acea38efcaf565150309ca0417f7c9.jpg)
looking then at the flower of life, you could have moved (depending on your intent and your knowledge/control of the double/energy body/feelings/etc.) you move either up down, to the left or to the right within those adjacent yet slightly different spheres.
(http://buidln.clipdealer.com/002/179/630//player/1--2179630-3d-kugel-blume-des-lebens-freigestellt.jpg)
With this larger flower of life picture, it shows depth/curvature, (maybe watch the video by Krauss I posted earlier) to help with imagining how all this actually is not as solid/physical as our senses tell us it is. It's a holographic soma. That's why the recapitulation is so important, it unhinges the past, makes the past less of a stabilizer to the present. (History is just holographic moments in time, and they are as malleable as the future) You can watch the movie "dark city" to help see this.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/uPzmtsu0Er701rFXTBwyGT8QtP59zA9804lrHFzxj4c4laPI-x1j-zuI5TkdxEvVRC4FcFEd=s633-fcrop64=1,00001f5bffffe1c7)
This picture now shows how we light up emanations that are close to us, and the ones that are a distance from us are darker.
With our energy as advanced runners we can feel our way into the emanations at large that best suit us.
Moving the assemblage point of earth then can be seen as a personal affair, it's does not need others to do it. Though greater shifts and more power is enabled in groups doing this, a 144000 would be nice. First attention people use this to move to a new car and house, but the set routines of the first attention fixate the personal, assemblage point position with it's best suited assemblage point of earth, without ever realizing their potential, to move further if they choose. Those realizations don't arrive to them because, their attention is being manipulated, one could say by the flyers but that really doesn't say anything, you can see even Michael with his War post is emphasising emanations "see"?
That's why it's important to see energy directly so you can engage intent in a more expanded way.
Pick your timeline!!!!!!!!!!!
(https://v1.std3.ru/700/77/93/1432491863-7793bac79357b16214835fc0e3cca519.gif)
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(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/70/16/ed/7016ed4c6937694b6e80cc898828cbe5.jpg)
Zik, In this picture we can see the fractal nature of these emanations at large, there is no begining and end to these fractals, and even going into the dreaming body, and becoming an inorganic being, you are still putting together emanations in the same way, a holographic fractal body of the eagles emanations.(using an old term) Each adjacent earth is a unique fractal frame and which adjacent static holographic frame available to you has to do with what attention you have developed. Second attention dreamer/ beings can move the assemblage point away from the first attention energetic thrust, as can someone on drugs. Attentions that have a grasp of the totality of the self can move the more solidly perceived clusters, by moving into clusters of earth emanations that are already there and waiting to be lite up, by attentions with the power to do it. It's a mater of seeing those alternative, lateral parallel earths adjacent frames by moving into them and knowing what your doing. So to answer your question about Jupiter and singular planets assemblage point, there are clusterings of emanations without humans, because each filament that make up the holographic fractals have awarness. We are just mobile attentions moving within the static fractal frames, but we are not exclusively the only ones with attention, and there are collectives of attentions, not necessarily human. Said another way, the earth is a sentient being, and humans are part of that being, the emanations are one single frame, which includes jupiter, sun inorganic beings, so what is being reflected is the self. That's why it's important to "see" the totality of the self. Said a third way, we are not separate from the emanations, we are the emanations, being assembled, we have the option to view ourselves as separate though to make up the world of separation, but this separation is just a position of an assemblage points view, in actuality there is no world/universe out there, we are the world/universe that is being reflected. Much like the analogy I made with the avatar on a game being played on a computer, each frame is your independent frame, and anything past the outside of your visual range( on the screen) is not as there as we are urged believe by the first attention training we have had.
Again I post Florinda from the Book "The Eagles Gift"
Florinda explained that when she or her peers talked about time, they were not referring to
something which is measured by the movement of a clock. Time is the essence of attention.
The Eagle's emanations are made out of time, and properly, when one enters into any aspect
of the other self, one is becoming acquainted with time.
Florinda assured me that that very night while we sat in formation, they had had their last
chance to help me and the apprentices to face the wheel of time.
She said that the wheel of time is like a state of heightened awareness which is part of the
other self- just as the left side awareness is part of the self of everyday life. Florinda said that
that state could physically be described as a tunnel of infinite length and width; a tunnel with
reflective furrows.
Every furrow is infinite, and there are infinite numbers of them. Living creatures are
compulsorily made, by the force of life, to gaze into one furrow. To gaze into it means to be
trapped by it; to live that furrow.
(nemo)There's information out there on how the holograph is fractal. Here is one.
http://www.cosmometry.net/fractal-holographic-synergetic-universe (http://www.cosmometry.net/fractal-holographic-synergetic-universe)
Brave Sir Robin exploring the emanations at large, he misses the signposts but is able to make adjustments on the fly and move down a furrow of time to survive another day, taking his minstrels along with him. Humorous emanations are my favorite.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFdgjYoBMIg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFdgjYoBMIg)
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I will read your second reply later nemo,
all I can say at this point is that I -personally- aim to more simplicity.
Michael said that love for a warrior (or an adept as his words were) is Earth.
I find this too!
I would say I prefer to feel the Earth rather than quantifying her. :)
Heh, maybe just words for now. ......
Peace, again.
-------------
All paths lead to nowhere.
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I just find all this a little obscure, and material extensive but not essential -for practicality- as dJ pointed "to us" almost all of the time.
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Wasn't finished, (chuckle) was going to post some more, on a roll so to speak. Be nice if there was a save draft option before posting, but it seems your overwhelmed.
Love for the earth is a given.
hmm put simply I would have to say it like this
Alignment with the totality of the self= seeing the assemblage point of earth
Efxaristo Zik.
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Hi nemo,
if you mean overwhelmed by data,..... I choose what I read.. There isn't a problem.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-b76yiqO1E
Maybe my favorite song
"What a strange feeling, he said... (...don Juan).
remember what he said following.... :) (?)
....It is a sticker in my mind even for the idea of "total freedom" through awareness.
To give you a clue, it has to do with forums, on a -first- personal level. ...you must remember... 8)
P.S. I cant understand totality of the self as seeing but "I belong" to west, on opposition to you ~ ~ ~
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I shared somewhere else the precepts of perception as they were given by a name...
Number 8 'found' a reply from a reader, with the adding of number 9.
8. There is a mysterious force known as intent which exists throughout the entire universe. It is this force which brings about perception, for it is intent which, firstly, aligns the energy fields, and secondly, causes awareness of that alignment.
..........
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Here is the assemblage point of earth for you Zik ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5FyfQDO5g0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5FyfQDO5g0)
(http://d38zt8ehae1tnt.cloudfront.net/Graham_Hancock__Why_Are_We_Here_HD__146685.jpg?v=1374497254)
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There are no survivors.
:-*
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There are no survivors.
:-*
How close is your double to you Zik?
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Hi Nemo, good question in this row.
It get's a little personal, but I 'll answer.
What I consider my double, it's somehow (considered) not separate from me..
In dreaming, I had a dream of real emergence that I considered (again, pardon) a most real experience; it has happened years ago and I record it as my most real experience in the realm of dreaming.
I don't equate 'Double' with a separate let's say for instance dreaming part, or self.
To me, it's somehow like a knowing, of fully being "remembered".
I would say it 's not always a clear connection, but I think the stones are put in ..place.
It's also, as always, a process here. :) -
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So you haven't gotten to the point where you can manipulate it yet.
The information I have been offering here has two parts, that make
up a single unit.
One is scientific/information based to placate the reason of the tonal, the other comes from
an alternate cognition that is the domain of the intent available to double.
To say there are no survivors is true, but it's only true of the tonal.
Said another way, If a tonal has not engaged the double as defined by
toltec knowledge (not vedic). The tonal will die.
There are two ways to the double, through dreaming and the other by stalking.
I have used the stalkers method.
So your saying two things to me, with your lack of interest in what I'm offering.
That you are a dreamer that has not engaged the intent of the double through dreaming,
the other is that you are a tonal that will not survive.
Do you expect not to survive this earth. Zik?
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So you haven't gotten to the point where you can manipulate it yet.
The information I have been offering here has two parts, that make
up a single unit.
One is scientific/information based to placate the reason of the tonal, the other comes from
an alternate cognition that is the domain of the intent available to double.
To say there are no survivors is true, but it's only true of the tonal.
Said another way, If a tonal has not engaged the double as defined by
toltec knowledge (not vedic). The tonal will die.
There are two ways to the double, through dreaming and the other by stalking.
I have used the stalkers method.
So your saying two things to me, with your lack of interest in what I'm offering.
That you are a dreamer that has not engaged the intent of the double through dreaming,
the other is that you are a tonal that will not survive.
Do you expect not to survive this earth. Zik?
lol, Nemo, I will not reply to your post.
\
(...Not now)
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Alright Zik, I apologies for putting that kind of pressure on you.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/09/27/e4/0927e42b856cb696734758d0e33c009d.jpg)
I would like to use our interaction to clarify time's relationship to attention. When we start to become acquainted with the other/double it results in a state of heightened awareness. That heightened state distances the perceptual field of the observer/attention away from the typical first attention current of energy.
My personal experience with this was that of a physical sensation, like a pulling away, a stepping out from, the intent of the first attention energy. Much like stepping out of a subway and it moving on sucking the air along with it. Following with the subway analogy, if I choose I can get back on the subway and off again. First attention beings simply don't engage heightened awareness knowingly so they are perennially on the subway. That tonal subway ride ends eventually individually speaking, but getting off the subway at least that inevitability is not there, in such a fixed way. You could call it sojourns away from linear time.
Heightened awareness then is an enhanced attention, I won't call it third or second, but that attention is a merging with the double. This then is a reverse to lucid/power dreaming where the first attention tonal wakes up in the dreaming body.
There is an exchange of available intent both ways. An example would be that in dreaming I was playing a grand piano amazingly well, then my daily awake awareness kicked in and realized it doesn't know how to play the piano, and the playing ability dropped to chopsticks level.
I have found then with the double if I allow it to act, by stepping off the subway so to speak, there is a different spectrum of intent available. The eagles emanations are made out of time, so the heightened awareness that comes with the merging with the double
then makes available emanations of time, (furrows) outside the current of energy that makes up the world of the first attention.
The Magical Passes:
The shamans of ancient Mexico, according to don Juan, described intent as a perennial force that
permeates the entire universe—a force that is aware of itself to the point of responding to the beckoning or
to the command of shamans. By means of intent, those shamans were capable of unleashing not only all the
human possibilities of perceiving, but all the human possibilities of action. Through intent, they realized the
most far-fetched formulations.
The Secret of the Feathered Snake:
Carlos:
"Warriors who are fortunate enough to find their parallel being while in this world, find a fountain of
youth, joy, and happiness. That is because one completes the other. In only a very few cases, however,
have warriors accomplished that feat.
(nemo) This picture I made up to show the two aspects of the self focused on the sphere, the sphere represents intent . The right and left sides/hands together but equally hold the centered spirit illuminating the emanations at large.
(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpg/08616f63bced5e7004268495a54d6b094047ab10_r.jpg)
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Nemo, sorry guy, I ignore you completely. : )
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I only have the query if you or Michael deleted your previous post ;) -
Michael?
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lol
What the heck are you talking about..... :)))))))))D